[Vision2020] Water Meeting on Monday
Jon Kimberling
jon@n-k-ins.com
Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:06:50 -0800
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Not so Bill. This last year our tax base grew. We increased the budget =
slightly over the prior year but your Moscow tax rate went down. I =
posted this chart on v2020 not that long ago.
Again, if the tax base can not expand and the demand for services =
increases, taxes will go up or services will have to be cut. That is =
just one reason why a small amount of growth is a must.
Jon
----- Original Message -----=20
From: bill london=20
To: Jon Kimberling=20
Cc: John Dickinson ; Vision2020=20
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Water Meeting on Monday
I think that Jon Kimberling has it backwards. =20
He explains in the message below: "Any limitation on our ability to =
grow will negatively impact our ability to hold the line on tax =
increases."
He says we need to grow to keep taxes down. That is exactly =
backwards. It is the growing, with the necessary expansion of services, =
that brings higher taxes. More housing subdivisions, more city staff, =
more expansion of infrastructure, more new firestations, etc etc. =
That's in addition to the increased traffic and other hassles.....
BL
Jon Kimberling wrote:
I thank John for his comments and agree that tonight is the time for =
us to come together in support of solving this critical problem. =
However, I would like to respond to his comments about my earlier =
statements.
There is a very delicate balance between growth and preservation of =
resources. Over that last year, on more than one occasion, we have heard =
representatives of the water coalition talk about different types of =
moratoriums. Most recently, two of the most prominent members of these =
groups appeared before the Planning & Zoning Commission. The occasion =
was the request to annex and develop property south of Joseph Street, =
east of White Avenue and north of Ridgeview Drive. Excerpts from the =
minutes of the 11/12/03 meeting are as follows:
Therefore, "French thinks it would be ill advised to grant =
annexation or additional subdivisions (not just this one in particular) =
until the City has defined plans for future water supply".
Solomon stated "at this point it would be reckless to approve =
developments.......=20
Their position on this request was clearly "no growth". The P & Z =
voted unanimously in support of the development.
As to the request to Idaho Dept. of Water Resources, it does state =
"impose a moratorium on the processing and approval of all pending and =
new applications for permits to appropriate water.......... City staff =
advises that their interpretation of this request is that anyone who =
wanted to drill a new well would not be permitted to do so. Staff was =
aware of at least two such applications currently pending. If the groups =
who filed the petition have a different interpretation than City staff, =
it would seem important to clarify this question.=20
In addition, right now approximately 60% of the water from our =
aquifers is being pumped out by our neighbors across the border. Pullman =
recently approved a new sub-division. We know from a recent report from =
the City of Moscow that average water use for Pullman/WSU is higher than =
Moscow/UI. I'm curious to know if any representatives of the water =
coalition were present at the meeting in Pullman? Did they make the same =
request to stop development in Pullman that they did on 11/12 in Moscow? =
In hindsight, it would have been more useful to the discussion if I =
would have posed this question: how would the coalition proposal limit =
development and constrain the growth of our tax base? One constant theme =
I've heard over the course of the last year is that our taxes are high =
enough. Any limitation on our ability to grow will negatively impact our =
ability to hold the line on tax increases.=20
I have the same goal of stabilizing our groundwater but doing it in =
a way that has the least negative impact on our local economy. I believe =
the suggestion of any type of moratorium, at this point, is premature. I =
agree with Dale Ralston's comment at the 6/23/03 meeting wherein he =
stated "declaration of a critical ground water area hasn't been a =
solution in any area of the state".
Jon Kimberling
----- Original Message -----=20
From: John Dickinson=20
To: vision2020@moscow.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 11:29 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] Water Meeting on Monday
Visionaries-
I have a couple of comments on recent postings regarding Moscow's =
water.
I do think that it is a good idea to get as many people as =
possible to the meeting on Monday. It is a public meeting before both =
the Moscow City Council and the Latah County Commissioners in the City =
Council chambers in City Hall on the evening of December 15. The meeting =
itself begins at 7:00 pm but the public hearing will begin at 7:30 pm. =
In the City's public meeting notice, the city indicates, "The subject of =
the meeting pertains to the potential designation of the region by the =
Idaho Department of Water Resources according to state statutes =
governing ground water issues. Designation of the area could impact =
future water use within the region and development within the City of =
Moscow and Latah County."=20
In addition to the subject of the meeting, I think it's good to =
know the format of the meeting and what to expect if you attend. The =
first 30 minutes of the meeting will consist of some standard City =
Council business and a report by Randy Fife on the Agreement with =
Whitcom for E-911 Services.
At 7:30 pm the Joint Public Meeting will begin. This will be a =
meeting where the public will be asked to give testimony. The mayor will =
run the meeting and in addition to the Latah County Commissions and the =
current Moscow City Council, I think the three newly elected city =
council members will also be there. I believe there will be a =
presentation by the city and one by the county. These presentations =
should provide some background and activities that the city and county =
think are important to the discussion. These presentations will probably =
last an hour or so. After these presentations, the public will be asked =
for their ideas and comments to either the City Council or the Board of =
County Commissioners. There may be some discussion by the City Council =
members which could result in some direction given to city staff.
A representative from the Idaho Department of Water Resources has =
been invited, but there may be a scheduling conflict with Monday's =
meeting. So unfortunately, I don't believe there will be any =
representatives from the state to clarify questions that people may have =
about the issue, to point out potential misunderstandings about the =
process, or to correct any errors of fact.
Many posts to V2020 have various levels of inaccuracies in them =
(including this post, I am sure).
There have been posts that imply that the state has become =
interested in our aquifer only because of a recent petition to the Idaho =
Department of Water Resources. There has been a local ground water =
management plan in place since 1992 that specified pumping limits for =
Moscow, Pullman, UI, and WSU. The only entity that has not been able to =
meet these pumping limits is Moscow - the other three entities have =
managed to remain within the pumping limits.=20
There have been posts that imply that if the state becomes =
involved that there will be a moratorium on any new hookups to the water =
system, even to a single family home. The request, as I understand it, =
is to impose a moratorium on permits to appropriate water from our =
aquifers. The question of new water hookups in Moscow would remain a =
local land use decision that the City would control. What would be =
reviewed are any new wells that the City might want to dig. New wells =
are far different than new home hookups. In November, I heard Bob Haynes =
(Idaho Dept. of Water Resources) explain that local land use would =
remain local. So I don't believe there is justification for statements =
such as "it would have a huge, negative impact on our community," or =
that the result will be to "shut down new development and essentially =
(freeze) our tax base." Remember that the goal is to stabilize =
groundwater levels and provide for a sustainable water supply for all =
area residents.
There have been posts that imply that those who call for =
conservation are also calling for no growth. This region has a very =
modest rate of growth, on the order of 1 or 2 percent. If water =
conservation methods enabled us to conserve 1 or 2 percent, then there =
would be nice balance between growth and conservation.
I hope at the meeting we'll be able to focus on the issue in front =
of us, regarding our use of water and our ability to provide quality =
water to area residents today and in the future. Let's discuss how to =
provide potable water for the people who live in our region, explore =
ways to conserve the amount of water that we use, and learn how to =
protect this valuable and treasured resource. I don't think we can =
continue to delay action by asking for more science or more studies. It =
is time to get our act together or we will force to let the state help =
us.
I hope that interested residents will come to the meeting on =
Monday to learn more about this issue. We need everyone, including the =
coalition, developers, residents, the business community, and others, to =
find a community solution to this important and complex problem.
John Dickinson
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not so Bill. This last year our tax =
base grew. We=20
increased the budget slightly over the prior year but your Moscow tax =
rate went=20
down. I posted this chart on v2020 not that long ago.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Again, if the tax base can not expand =
and the=20
demand for services increases, taxes will go up or services will have to =
be cut.=20
That is just one reason why a small amount of growth is a =
must.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jon</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dlondon@moscow.com href=3D"mailto:london@moscow.com">bill =
london</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Djon@n-k-ins.com=20
href=3D"mailto:jon@n-k-ins.com">Jon Kimberling</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Djohnd@moscow.com =
href=3D"mailto:johnd@moscow.com">John Dickinson</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com =
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 15, 2003 =
1:42=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Water =
Meeting=20
on Monday</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I think that Jon Kimberling has it backwards. =
<BR>He=20
explains in the message below: "<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Any limitation on our ability to grow will negatively impact =
our=20
ability to hold the line on tax increases."<BR></FONT></SPAN></SPAN>He =
says we=20
need to grow to keep taxes down. That is exactly =
backwards. It is=20
the growing, with the necessary expansion of services, that brings =
higher=20
taxes. More housing subdivisions, more city staff, more =
expansion of=20
infrastructure, more new firestations, etc etc. That's in =
addition to=20
the increased traffic and other hassles.....<BR>BL<BR><BR><BR><BR>Jon=20
Kimberling wrote:<BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I thank John for his comments and=20
agree that tonight is the time for us to come together in =
support=20
of solving this critical problem. However, I would like to respond =
to his=20
comments about my earlier statements.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There is a very delicate balance =
between growth=20
and preservation of resources. Over that last year, on more than one =
occasion, we have heard representatives of the water coalition talk =
about=20
different types of moratoriums. Most recently, two of the most =
prominent=20
members of these groups appeared before the Planning & Zoning=20
Commission. The occasion was the request to annex and develop=20
property<STRONG> </STRONG>south of Joseph Street, east of White =
Avenue=20
and north of Ridgeview Drive.<ST1:STREET><ST1:ADDRESS><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><STRONG>=20
</STRONG></SPAN></ST1:ADDRESS></ST1:STREET>Excerpts from the minutes =
of the=20
11/12/03 meeting are as follows:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>Therefore, "French thinks it would be ill =
advised to grant=20
annexation or additional subdivisions (not just this one in =
particular)=20
until the City has defined plans for future water=20
supply".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Solomon stated "at this point it would be reckless to =
approve=20
developments....... </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Their position on this request was clearly "no growth". The =
P & Z=20
voted unanimously in support of the =
development.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>As to the request to Idaho Dept. of Water Resources, =
it does=20
state "impose a moratorium on the processing and approval of all =
pending and=20
new applications for permits to appropriate water.......... City =
staff=20
advises that their interpretation of this request is that anyone who =
wanted=20
to drill a new well would not be permitted to do so. Staff was aware =
of at=20
least two such applications currently pending. If the groups who =
filed the=20
petition have a different interpretation than City staff, it would=20
seem important to clarify this question.=20
</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>In addition, right now approximately 60% of the water from =
our=20
aquifers is being pumped out by our neighbors across the border. =
Pullman=20
recently approved a new sub-division. We know from a recent report =
from the=20
City of Moscow that average water use for Pullman/WSU is higher than =
Moscow/UI. I'm curious to know if any representatives of the water =
coalition=20
were present at the meeting in Pullman? Did they make the same =
request to=20
stop development in Pullman that they did on 11/12 in Moscow?=20
</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>In hindsight, it would have been more useful to the =
discussion if I=20
would have posed this question: how would the coalition proposal =
limit=20
development and constrain the growth of our tax base? One constant =
theme=20
I've heard over the course of the last year is that our taxes are =
high=20
enough. Any limitation on our ability to grow will negatively impact =
our=20
ability to hold the line on tax increases. =
</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>I have the same goal of stabilizing our groundwater but =
doing it in a=20
way that has the least negative impact on our local economy. I =
believe the=20
suggestion of any type of moratorium, at this point, is premature. I =
agree=20
with Dale Ralston's comment at the 6/23/03 meeting wherein he stated =
"declaration of a critical ground water area hasn't been a solution =
in any=20
area of the state".</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Jon Kimberling</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: =
none">-----=20
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; =
font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none; moz-background-clip: =
initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial; moz-background-origin: =
initial"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Djohnd@moscow.com href=3D"mailto:johnd@moscow.com">John=20
Dickinson</A> </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: =
none"><B>To:</B>=20
<A title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: =
none"><B>Sent:</B>=20
Sunday, December 14, 2003 11:29 PM</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: =
none"><B>Subject:</B>=20
[Vision2020] Water Meeting on Monday</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2=20
family=3D"SANSSERIF"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Visionaries-<BR><BR>I=20
have a couple of comments on recent postings regarding Moscow=92s=20
water.<BR><BR>I do think that it is a good idea to get as many =
people as=20
possible to the meeting on Monday. It is a public meeting before =
both the=20
Moscow City Council and the Latah County Commissioners in the City =
Council=20
chambers in City Hall on the evening of December 15. The meeting =
itself=20
begins at 7:00 pm but the public hearing will begin at 7:30 pm. In =
the=20
City=92s public meeting notice, the city indicates, =93The subject =
of the=20
meeting pertains to the potential designation of the region by the =
Idaho=20
Department of Water Resources <B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">according=20
to state statutes</SPAN></B> governing ground water issues. =
Designation of=20
the area could impact future water use within the region and =
development=20
within the City of Moscow and Latah County.=94 <BR><BR>In addition =
to the=20
subject of the meeting, I think it=92s good to know the format of =
the=20
meeting and what to expect if you attend. The first 30 minutes of =
the=20
meeting will consist of some standard City Council business and a =
report=20
by Randy Fife on the Agreement with Whitcom for E-911 =
Services.<BR><BR>At=20
7:30 pm the Joint Public Meeting will begin. This will be a =
meeting where=20
the public will be asked to give testimony. The mayor will run the =
meeting=20
and in addition to the Latah County Commissions and the current =
Moscow=20
City Council, I think the three newly elected city council members =
will=20
also be there. I believe there will be a presentation by the city =
and one=20
by the county. These presentations should provide some background =
and=20
activities that the city and county think are important to the =
discussion.=20
These presentations will probably last an hour or so. After these=20
presentations, the public will be asked for their ideas and =
comments to=20
either the City Council or the Board of County Commissioners. =
There may be=20
some discussion by the City Council members which could result in =
some=20
direction given to city staff.<BR><BR>A representative from the =
Idaho=20
Department of Water Resources has been invited, but there may be a =
scheduling conflict with Monday=92s meeting. So unfortunately, I =
don=92t=20
believe there will be any representatives from the state to =
clarify=20
questions that people may have about the issue, to point out =
potential=20
misunderstandings about the process, or to correct any errors of=20
fact.<BR><BR>Many posts to V2020 have various levels of =
inaccuracies in=20
them (including this post, I am sure).<BR><BR>There have been =
posts that=20
imply that the state has become interested in our aquifer only =
because of=20
a recent petition to the Idaho Department of Water Resources. =
There has=20
been a local ground water management plan in place since 1992 that =
specified pumping limits for Moscow, Pullman, UI, and WSU. The =
only entity=20
that has not been able to meet these pumping limits is Moscow =96 =
the other=20
three entities have managed to remain within the pumping limits.=20
<BR><BR>There have been posts that imply that if the state becomes =
involved that there will be a moratorium on any new hookups to the =
water=20
system, even to a single family home. The request, as I understand =
it, is=20
to impose a moratorium on permits to appropriate water from our =
aquifers.=20
The question of new water hookups in Moscow would remain a local =
land use=20
decision that the City would control. What would be reviewed are =
any new=20
wells that the City might want to dig. New wells are far different =
than=20
new home hookups. In November, I heard Bob Haynes (Idaho Dept. of =
Water=20
Resources) explain that local land use would remain local. So I =
don=92t=20
believe there is justification for statements such as =93it would =
have a=20
huge, negative impact on our community,=94 or that the result will =
be to=20
=93shut down new development and essentially (freeze) our tax =
base.=94=20
Remember that the goal is to stabilize groundwater levels and =
provide for=20
a sustainable water supply for all area residents.<BR><BR>There =
have been=20
posts that imply that those who call for conservation are also =
calling for=20
no growth. This region has a very modest rate of growth, on the =
order of 1=20
or 2 percent. If water conservation methods enabled us to conserve =
1 or 2=20
percent, then there would be nice balance between growth and=20
conservation.<BR><BR>I hope at the meeting we=92ll be able to =
focus on the=20
issue in front of us, regarding our use of water and our ability =
to=20
provide quality water to area residents today and in the future. =
Let=92s=20
discuss how to provide potable water for the people who live in =
our=20
region, explore ways to conserve the amount of water that we use, =
and=20
learn how to protect this valuable and treasured resource. I =
don=92t think=20
we can continue to delay action by asking for more science or more =
studies. It is time to get our act together or we will force to =
let the=20
state help us.<BR><BR>I hope that interested residents will come =
to the=20
meeting on Monday to learn more about this issue. We need =
everyone,=20
including the coalition, developers, residents, the business =
community,=20
and others, to find a community solution to this important and =
complex=20
problem.<BR><BR><BR>John Dickinson</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: =
navy"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
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size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black"><!--[if=20
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!supportEmptyParas]--><!--[endif]--> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: =
black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO=
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