[Vision2020] Apathetic Liberals
Dale Courtney
dmcourtn@moscow.com
Sat, 13 Dec 2003 20:45:19 -0800
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Donovan,
Wish I had known you were there. I would have liked to have met you.=20
There are many complexities to what occurred with Mrs. Stoneman on Thrs =
night. Here are a few:=20
a.. The forum was concerning CC's view on slavery -- and then open to =
any other questions about CC.=20
b.. Logos is not a part of CC. Logos has its own board of directors. =
Wilson rotates on and off of that board. That board is made up of 4 =
different churches in Moscow/Pullman.=20
c.. Logos students come from over 24 churches from Moscow/Pullman =
area.=20
d.. The charges that Mrs. Stoneman brought against the teachers she =
named were all (but one) against teachers who are not from CC.
e.. In order for her charges to be addressed and dealt with, they need =
to be taken to that group which has authority and jurisdiction. CC is =
not that group.=20
f.. Finally (IMO), Mrs. Stoneman lost the audience when she accused =
Logos of beating the kids on their birthdays. The entire audience's =
demeanor changed at that point.=20
The point that was made on Thrs (and which is correct), is that the =
meeting on Thrs was to address concerns/issues with CC. CC has zero =
jurisdiction over the issues at Logos. That was explained many times on =
Thrs; the audience "got it" -- and that's why Mrs. Stoneman had the =
negative reaction that she did.=20
Best,
Dale
----- Original Message -----=20
From: DonovArn@aol.com=20
To: dmcourtn@moscow.com ; vision2020@moscow.com=20
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 16:37
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Apathetic Liberals
Dale,
I viewed it a little differently than you did. I guess we will have to =
get out the video tape.=20
"Mrs. Stoneman asked "are you a Christ Church member" and he yelled =
"no!" Then that same man got up, walked down to the front, and escorted =
her out. He was an older gentleman; unlikely he is a bouncer (though he =
may have been one 40 years ago)."
I heard someone sitting in the audience ask one man in front of me =
ask, " Are you a member of Christ Church or are you. . . a general =
member of the community?" He relied no, than something else.=20
Don Harter (I am pretty sure it was him, could be wrong) shouted =
something rude to her, and the Christ Church members sitting around me, =
(And yes, I know they were Christ Church members) cheered. Harter than =
went up to the microphone and grabbed Mr. Stoneman by the arm. That is =
when I ran down there to make sure that she was not injured or harmed. I =
then told her to talk to a reporter of the Daily News that I knew was =
sitting in the audience.=20
The way I saw it was that Mrs. Stoneridge was incorrect in the way =
that she confronted Mr. Wilson. She did not form her argument in a way =
that directly related to the forum. This made many people angry. She =
tried to argue over unimportant points rather than just frame her =
argument in a way that did directly relate to the purpose of the =
meeting. She did not do that and took way to long.
The make up of the audience was about 1/3 Liberals 1/3 members of =
Christ Church, and the remaining third were people either friends of the =
Christ Church, the media, or just people to observe and see what is =
going on.=20
When the audience was asked if they wanted to hear what was going on =
with Logos,( I could see the entire audience), 1/3 raised their hand, =
1/3 raised their hand to not want to hear it, and 1/3 third didn't =
respond either way to the question. Very predictable.
Although I did find what Mrs. Stoneridge to say was very important, I =
do agree that she did not create a clear connection between her son, =
abuse, Logos, Christ Church, and the purpose of the forum.=20
What I do find sad however, is that people shouted down someone that =
was trying to explain that her son had been abused. I think this is the =
type of behavior that allowed the Catholic Church to go on so long with =
Child Abuse, because people were not allowed to voice their concerns. =
All allegations of abuse of children should be taken seriously. I do =
agree that she did it not as tactfully as she could have.=20
Donovan
In a message dated 12/13/2003 3:50:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, =
dmcourtn@moscow.com writes:
Hate to burst your bubble; but those people who were shouting were =
not Christ Church members. It was all video taped. One man in the =
back-center of the auditorium shouted for her to "sit down and shut up". =
Mrs. Stoneman asked "are you a Christ Church member" and he yelled "no!" =
Then that same man got up, walked down to the front, and escorted her =
out. He was an older gentleman; unlikely he is a bouncer (though he may =
have been one 40 years ago).=20
When she further said "the public wants to know!", another non-CC =
man from the middle left said "we are the public! Sit down and shut up!" =
=20
Feel free to verify this with anyone who was there -- or you can =
check the video.
What Mrs. Stoneman needs is our prayers, support, and sympathy. =
She's been thru hell (read thru all the articles over at =
http://www.valuachild.com/ to see what she and her children have been =
thru).=20
And, yes, I wish you had been there too. It would have been nice to =
meet you and Don at last.
Best,
Dale
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Donovan,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Wish I had known you were =
there. I=20
would have liked to have met you. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>There are many complexities =
to what=20
occurred with Mrs. Stoneman on Thrs night. Here are a few: </FONT></DIV>
<UL>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>The forum was concerning =
CC's view on=20
slavery -- and then open to any other questions about CC. </FONT></LI>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Logos is <U>not</U> a part =
of CC.=20
Logos has its own board of directors. Wilson rotates on and off of =
that board.=20
That board is made up of 4 different churches in Moscow/Pullman. =
</FONT></LI>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Logos students come from =
over 24=20
churches from Moscow/Pullman area. </FONT></LI>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>The charges that Mrs. =
Stoneman brought=20
against the teachers she named were all (but one) against teachers who =
are=20
<U>not</U> from CC.</FONT></LI>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>In order for her charges =
to be=20
addressed and dealt with, they need to be taken to that group which =
has=20
authority and jurisdiction. CC is not that group. </FONT></LI>
<LI><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Finally (IMO), Mrs. =
Stoneman lost the=20
audience when she accused Logos of beating the kids on their =
birthdays. The=20
entire audience's demeanor changed at that point. </FONT></LI></UL>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>The point that was made on =
Thrs (and=20
which is correct), is that the meeting on Thrs was to address =
concerns/issues=20
with CC. CC has <U>zero</U> jurisdiction over the issues at Logos. That =
was=20
explained many times on Thrs; the audience "got it" -- and that's why =
Mrs.=20
Stoneman had the negative reaction that she did. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Best,<BR>Dale</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DDonovArn@aol.com =
href=3D"mailto:DonovArn@aol.com">DonovArn@aol.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddmcourtn@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:dmcourtn@moscow.com">dmcourtn@moscow.com</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 13, =
2003=20
16:37</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] =
Apathetic=20
Liberals</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Dale,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I viewed it a little differently than you did. I guess we will =
have to=20
get out the video tape. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Mrs. Stoneman asked "are you a Christ Church member" and he =
yelled "no!"=20
Then that same man got up, walked down to the =
front, and=20
escorted her out. He was an older gentleman; unlikely he is a bouncer =
(though=20
he may have been one 40 years ago)."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I heard someone sitting in the audience ask one man in front =
of=20
me ask, " Are you a member of Christ Church or are you. . . a =
general=20
member of the community?" He relied no, than something else. </DIV>
<DIV>Don Harter (I am pretty sure it was him, could be wrong) =
shouted=20
something rude to her, and the Christ Church members sitting around=20
me, (And yes, I know they were Christ Church members) =
cheered.=20
Harter than went up to the microphone and grabbed Mr. Stoneman =
by the=20
arm. That is when I ran down there to make sure that she was not =
injured or=20
harmed. I then told her to talk to a reporter of the Daily News that I =
knew=20
was sitting in the audience. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The way I saw it was that Mrs. Stoneridge was incorrect in the =
way that=20
she confronted Mr. Wilson. She did not form her argument in a way that =
directly related to the forum. This made many people angry. She tried =
to argue=20
over unimportant points rather than just frame her argument in a way =
that did=20
directly relate to the purpose of the meeting. She did not do that and =
took=20
way to long.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The make up of the audience was about 1/3 Liberals 1/3 =
members of=20
Christ Church, and the remaining third were people either friends of =
the=20
Christ Church, the media, or just people to observe and see what is =
going on.=20
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>When the audience was asked if they wanted to hear what was going =
on with=20
Logos,( I could see the entire audience), 1/3 raised their hand, 1/3 =
raised=20
their hand to not want to hear it, and 1/3 third didn't respond either =
way to=20
the question. Very predictable.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Although I did find what Mrs. Stoneridge to say was very =
important, I do=20
agree that she did not create a clear connection between her son, =
abuse,=20
Logos, Christ Church, and the purpose of the forum. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What I do find sad however, is that people shouted down someone =
that was=20
trying to explain that her son had been abused. I think this is the =
type of=20
behavior that allowed the Catholic Church to go on so long with Child =
Abuse,=20
because people were not allowed to voice their concerns. All =
allegations of=20
abuse of children should be taken seriously. I do agree that she did =
it not as=20
tactfully as she could have. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 12/13/2003 3:50:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,=20
dmcourtn@moscow.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px =
solid">
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Hate to burst your =
bubble; but=20
those people who were shouting were <U>not</U> Christ Church =
members. It was=20
all video taped. One man in the back-center of the =
auditorium shouted=20
for her to "sit down and shut up". Mrs. Stoneman asked "are you a =
Christ=20
Church member" and he yelled "no!" Then that same man got=20
up, walked down to the front, and escorted her out. =
He was an=20
older gentleman; unlikely he is a bouncer (though he may have been =
one 40=20
years ago). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>When she =
further said "the=20
public wants to know!", another non-CC man from the middle left said =
"we are=20
the public! Sit down and shut up!" </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Feel free to verify =
this with=20
anyone who was there -- or you can check the video.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>What Mrs. Stoneman =
needs is our=20
prayers, support, and sympathy. She's been thru hell (read thru all =
the=20
articles over at <A title=3Dhttp://www.valuachild.com/=20
=
href=3D"http://www.valuachild.com/">http://www.valuachild.com/</A> t=
o see=20
what she and her children have been thru). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>And, yes, I wish you =
had been there=20
too. It would have been nice to meet you and Don at =
last.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Best,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3>Dale</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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