[Vision2020] Climate
Jerry Owen
owenjerry@hotmail.com
Sun, 14 Dec 2003 00:37:10 +0000
I sent this yesterday but it didn't go through.
Amy,
Collegiate Reformed Fellowship (CRF) is the campus ministry of
Christ Church. I say 'we' because the four guys who went, not me,
went to do what some might call build a bridge, in hope of
friendship and community amidst and environment that has previously
hostile. Hostile means GSA members yelling and cursing at us while
we pass out flyers. And, yes, that was the only goal, not to
subvert or take over in scheme.
At the Town Meeting last night, questions such as 'How do those of us in the
gay and lesbian community feel when Wilson is quoted as
saying that there are alternatives to death as punishment for
homosexuality . . . exile' were shown to be false because they were
taken out of context and slanderous---those who went, agreed on
this. Similarly, the guys at the Gay Straight Alliance were asked
about their stance on homosexuality. They didn't offer it: 'Hi, I
think homosexuality is sinful.' But when they were asked what they
believe, they responded responded honestly without malice.
As Remington and Chris, two cordial members of the GSA, informed me
last night, some people in the GSA feel offended and unsafe when
people give such convictions. I understand their feeling: Christian
Churches and students are minority groups (imagine the ads and cartoons
taken against a Muslim or Jew as they are against
Christians and Christ Church). What I don't understand, is how
people who claim commitment to tolerance and diversity rationalize
booting people out, not because they were obnoxious or disruptive, but
because they have a different religion, opinion, however you
want to cast it. It's fine if others can't come, but abandon the
charade of diversity. It reminds of Mencken's quip on anything
against current (yet ever anew) orthodoxy:
'It is not only erroneous to think thus; it has come to be
immoral.... For an American to question any of the articles of
fundamental faith cherished by the majority is for him to run grave
risks of social disaster.'
Hence Nick Gier and the Not in Our Town yawning campaign. For some, we
can't be Christians and live here.
I appreciate your comments and am interested in further dialogue as
the gentlemen from the GSA also expressed last night. Lets set
something up. For those who want to continue the name calling and
divisiveness, post on!
Sincerely,
JO
>
>
>>From: "amy smoucha" <asmoucha@hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: asmoucha@hotmail.com
>>To: owenjerry@hotmail.com, vision2020@moscow.com
>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Climate
>>Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:02:39 -0600
>>
>>Jerry,
>>
>>I am not associated with U of I in any way, so I know nothing about this
>>meeting or your group or what went down, but I would like to understand.
>>
>>You say that the people who attended the GSA meeting went to meet people,
>>develop, friendships & learn about the gay community. So were the four of
>>you just four people who wanted to know more about gay people and who
>>decided that was a good way to learn? Were you one of the people who
>>attended the meeting? And when you say "we" are still trying to figure
>>out why "they" were kicked out, who is "we"?
>>
>>I truly am confused because your message implies that four people
>>genuinely wanted to build community and meet people who are not like them,
>>and that there was no other purpose or intention behind the decision to
>>attend the meeting. That may be true, and if it is I commend you.
>>
>>As Mo pointed out so well, there are a lot of reasons that people would
>>feel uncomfortable with your visit. Also, it may be more difficult for
>>young people to feel like exposing themselves to your interests, for lots
>>of reasons. I have a mormon friend who sets strict boundaries in telling
>>us that she doesn't want to answer lots of questions about her religion,
>>because that is a private matter (questions like what is Mormon
>>underwear). That is a fair boundary to set, and setting that boundary is
>>not about exclusiveness. Sometimes people are just beginnign to form an
>>identity in college. I know when I was in college, a visit by strangers
>>to a meeting like that would have put me on the defense. It still might.
>>
>>There are many of us within the gay and lesbian community who are willing
>>to talk with you and spend time with you towards learning about each
>>others communities. If you and your friends want to have such a
>>discussion, I'd be glad to participate.
>>
>>If your purpose was knowledge and friendship, there are many other avenues
>>yet to pursue.
>>
>>Amy Smoucha
>>
>>PS what is "CRF" and what is its purpose and mission?
>>
>>----Original Message Follows----
>>From: "Jerry Owen" <owenjerry@hotmail.com>
>>To: mghuskey@msn.com, vision2020@moscow.com
>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Climate
>>Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 23:29:05 +0000
>>
>>Melynda et al,
>>
>>Disrupting is an inaccurate thing to call it. Four NSA students went to
>>the Gay Straight Alliance to meet people, develop friendships and learn
>>about the gay community. Why? Because in the Christian worldview, just
>>because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you hate them or don't want
>>to understand them. For example, I think republicans are quite off, but
>>that doesn't mean I won't speak to them or tolerate their presence.
>>
>>The CRF members who were kicked out of the Alliance (?) asked for a reason
>>why they were asked to leave and were never given one. They asked and
>>emailed (twice). They were told that they didn't get kicked out because
>>they're white or male or Christian or dispruptive (although the group
>>leader said told them as they were being kicked out that asking why they
>>were getting kicked out was disruptive). So we're still wondering why
>>they had to leave.
>>
>>People of all color, gender and sexual orientation are (and always have
>>been) welcome at CRF meetings. And if you want to hear the only black
>>preacher in town, Chris Morris preaches regularly at Christ Church's
>>monthly Evensong services (third Sunday of every month) as he did this
>>past Sunday.
>>
>>Cheerio,
>>
>>Jerry Owen
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "Melynda Huskey" <mghuskey@msn.com>
>>>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Climate
>>>Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:59:01 -0800
>>>
>>>Doug writes:
>>>
>>>>Someone needs to take responsibility for the climate.
>>>
>>>We *all* need to take responsibility for the climate.
>>>
>>>When someone vandalizes Bucer's or the New St. Andrews College, the
>>>climate is affected. Likewise when members of the Collegiate Reformed
>>>Fellowship disrupt Gay Straight Alliance meetings, the climate is
>>>affected. When I give in to the impulse to be snotty at the expense of
>>>real conversation, the climate is affected. And when the Christ Church
>>>Board asserts that secularists inherently encourage racism and violence,
>>>the climate is affected.
>>>
>>>Nobody's skirts are clean here. And in a pluralistic community, each of
>>>us is responsible for our own actions, and for what we encourage,
>>>support, and abet.
>>>
>>>Melynda Huskey
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>Dont worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the
>>>holidays. Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es
>>>
>>>_____________________________________________________
>>>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>>>communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net
>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
>>>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Get holiday tips for festive fun.
>>http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx
>>
>>_____________________________________________________
>>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>>communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
>>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the
>>FREE McAfee online computer scan!
>>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>>
>>_____________________________________________________
>>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>>communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
>>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
>
_________________________________________________________________
Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the
FREE McAfee online computer scan!
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963