[Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
John Moss
johnmoss@moscow.com
Thu, 7 Aug 2003 07:15:41 -0700
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C35CB3.B5A70870
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No offense, Mr. Arnold, but let's be fair. The article that Rose Huskey =
posted on child molestation has two footnotes. Those two footnotes =
refer to four sets of research: one done in 1989, one done in 1988, one =
done in 1984, and one done in 1987.
Lastly, there is a reason that more recent medical literature has not =
covered the other medical dangers of homosexual sex. HIV and AIDS have =
swallowed the limelight--front, back and center. But for those who =
really want to read more on the medical conditions facing homosexuals, =
please start with:
ARCHIVES of SEXUAL BEHAVIOR, August 2003
BULLETIN of CANCER, May 2003
CLINICAL INFECTIOUS DISEASES, July 2003
JOURNAL of ACQUIRED IMMUNE DEFICIENCY SYNDROME, July 2003
and many others.
Thank you.
John
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Donovan Arnold=20
To: johnmoss@moscow.com ; lukenieuwsma@softhome.net ; =
vision2020@moscow.com=20
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
Mr. Moss, Mr. Harrell, and Mr. Nieuwsma are unable to figure out the =
difference between two consenting adults of the same gender having sex =
and that of a grown adult and a child having sex.
Let me explain to them and others that may be confused about the =
difference between two consenting adults having sex versus that that of =
grown adult having sex with a child since they can't figure it out.
A child is not sexually developed, thus he/she does not know what sex =
is. A child doesn't have the mental capability of consenting to =
something they don't understand. If they can not consent to sex and the =
adult does have sex with the child they are committing RAPE.
I am not asking to take my word for it, go and talk to adults that =
were victims of this type of behavior when they were children. The =
American Psychological Association and well as it's counter part in =
Europe will tell you the same thing. As well as 90% of Americans, and =
99% of Europeans. Even prisoners see a distinctions between a child =
molester and homosexuals. But you know if you can't, that just shows =
your inability to think logically and critically about the differences =
of one type of sexual behavior and another.=20
Mr. Moss,
No offense, but you are very slow in your comprehension of other =
people. I have engaged in enough heterosexual sex to know that it is not =
insane. I was being sarcastic. I was pointing out your weaknesses in =
your arguments towards gays and lesbians. They can be equally applied to =
straights. Please, catch up with the rest of us. It is hard to have an =
intellectual conversation with someone that can't understand basics of =
arguments and uses evidence from 1982 as support scientific evidence. =
Strom Thurmond obviously lives on.
Donovan J Arnold
>From: "John Moss"=20
>To: "Donovan Arnold" , ,=20
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage=20
>Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 23:48:50 -0700=20
>=20
>Donovan Arnold states that heterosexual relationships are insane.=20
>Donovan Arnold states that homosexual man-boy relationships are =
perverse.=20
>Donovan Arnold states that homosexual man-man relationships are =
normal.=20
>=20
>Well, for those who believe in a young earth, it has taken thousands =
of instances of insane heterosexual intercourse to produce Donovan =
Arnold. For those who believe in evolution, is has taken millions =
(possibly billions) of instances of insane heterosexual intercourse to =
produce Donovan Arnold.=20
>=20
>That's one heck of a lot of insanity to produce one very normal =
Donovan.=20
>=20
>I guess we owe due thanks to some really wacked-out heterosexuals =
that we are all here today, kicking about and posting nonsense onto =
Vision2020.=20
>=20
>And, while we are at, by what standard, Donovan, do you discriminate =
between the normalcy of consenual man-man relationships and the =
perversion of consensual man-boy relationships?=20
>=20
>Cheers!=20
>=20
>John=20
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: Donovan Arnold=20
> To: lukenieuwsma@softhome.net ; vision2020@moscow.com=20
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:40 PM=20
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage=20
>=20
>=20
> Luke,=20
>=20
> Nobody is more against relationships between children and adults =
then the homosexual community and civil rights activitists. It is you =
that wishes to connect NAMBLA with the gay community. NAMBLA is a =
pedophilia organization. NOT a gay organization. You have a very twisted =
concept of reality. Every study in America in the last 15 years has =
shown that White Straight Married men are the leaders of child =
molesting. Look at you media cases would you? The "Amber Alert" is =
always little white girls abducted by sick white men, almost all every =
case, most of them married or previously married.=20
>=20
> You write:=20
>=20
> "For that matter, looking at things from your point of view, what =
would be wrong with simply abolishing all concept of marriage?"=20
>=20
> Nothing, from my perceptive of equal rights. But from human rights a =
big difference. Most marriages are false anyway. It is what is in the =
heart that matters. But Marriages allow for tax breaks, child custody, =
hospital visitation rights, property rights, medical coverage, spousal =
benefits, car insurance, burial rights, death benefits, and a host of =
other issues.=20
>=20
> Everyone has the right to decide who they want to receive these =
rights about themselves and their family. That is a basic human right. I =
would hate for someone to tell me that I can't have someone make =
decisions for me in a case of an accident because of the gender of the =
person, or because they disagree with my decision based on "their" =
religious beliefs. This the core of the issue. Not NAMBLA is a small =
group of freaks that no sense of reality or the rights of children.=20
>=20
> Donovan J Arnold=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >From: "Luke"=20
> >To: "Donovan Arnold" , "vision2020"=20
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage=20
> >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:19:31 -0700=20
> >=20
> >Greetings, Mr. Arnold,=20
> >=20
> > I find it odd that you do not see the connection between Nambla =
and=20
> >homosexual unions . Someone on this list recently pointed out that =
there is=20
> >already hypocrisy in heterosexual marriages nation-wide; men and =
women with=20
> >covenant vows are cheating on their spouses. Now what is to stop =
two men=20
> >with a "vow" from cheating on each other?=20
> > For that matter, looking at things from your point of view, what =
would=20
> >be wrong with simply abolishing all concept of marriage? Why should =
there=20
> >even be a contract? How can you say mutual consent isn't enough?=20
> > And furthermore, how can you in your worldview say that sex =
between a=20
> >child and a man is immoral/should be illegal? You're imposing your =
religious=20
> >views on others!=20
> >=20
> >My sincere and respectful regards,=20
> >Luke Nieuwsma=20
> >=20
> >P.S. On your earlier post you mentioned under the objection "The =
parts don't=20
> >fit" that modern science can tweak a man's body into adopting =
female organs.=20
> >But doesn't that simply fit the heterosexual pattern that man was =
designed=20
> >for? You cannot escape the way God made the world, try as you =
might.=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > >Luke writes:=20
> > >"What if you have a four-year-old son, and they are trying to =
convince him=20
> >that he is being >sexually deprived? Suppose they were active =
members of=20
> >NAMBLA? Not an important >topic to you?"=20
> > >Luke WTF? Honestly, you must live in hole that exists some where =
between=20
> >the years 1892 and 1942.=20
> > >First, Mr. Hansen is intelligent to check out who is left alone =
with his=20
> >children.=20
> > >Second, what does this have to do with Gay Marriage?=20
> > >Third, he is worse off leaving his children with straight married =
man then=20
> >he is gay man or >women chosen at random.=20
> > >Fourth, this is type of thinking that led to the placement of =
surge=20
> >protectors on electrical >outlets and warning signs on fans that =
say don't=20
> >put your finger between the spinning blades.=20
> > >Fifth, pull your head out of gutter!=20
> > >Welcome to the 21st Century Luke!=20
> > >Donovan J Arnold=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > >From: "Luke"=20
> > >To: vision2020@moscow.com=20
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage=20
> > >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:56:50 -0700=20
> > >=20
> > >Mr. Hansen,=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > > I most seriously doubt that my 29-year heterosexual marriage =
will feel=20
> > > > threatened if Jim and John Smith (or Mary and Jane Doe) decide =
to marry=20
> > >and=20
> > > > move next door to me.=20
> > >=20
> > >What if you have a four-year-old son, and they are trying to =
convince him=20
> > >that he is being sexually deprived? Suppose they were active =
members of=20
> > >NAMBLA? Not an important topic to you?=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >Luke Nieuwsma=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > >_____________________________________________________=20
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,=20
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.=20
> > > http://www.fsr.net=20
> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com=20
> > =
>=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
>=20
=
>------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------=20
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* =
_____________________________________________________ List services made =
available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse =
since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com =
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. =
_____________________________________________________ List services made =
available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse =
since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com =
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF
------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C35CB3.B5A70870
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No offense, Mr. Arnold, but let's be =
fair. =20
The article that Rose Huskey posted on child molestation has two=20
footnotes. Those two footnotes refer to four sets of =
research: one=20
done in 1989, one done in 1988, one done in 1984, and one done in=20
1987.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Lastly, there is a reason that more =
recent medical=20
literature has not covered the other medical dangers of homosexual =
sex. =20
HIV and AIDS have swallowed the limelight--front, back and center. =
But for=20
those who really want to read more on the medical conditions facing =
homosexuals,=20
please start with:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ARCHIVES of SEXUAL BEHAVIOR, August=20
2003</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>BULLETIN of CANCER, May =
2003</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>CLINICAL INFECTIOUS DISEASES, July=20
2003</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>JOURNAL of ACQUIRED IMMUNE DEFICIENCY =
SYNDROME,=20
July 2003</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and many others.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>John</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Ddonovanarnold@hotmail.com=20
href=3D"mailto:donovanarnold@hotmail.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Djohnmoss@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:johnmoss@moscow.com">johnmoss@moscow.com</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dlukenieuwsma@softhome.net=20
=
href=3D"mailto:lukenieuwsma@softhome.net">lukenieuwsma@softhome.net</A> =
; <A=20
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 07, 2003 =
1:34=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Re:=20
Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P>Mr. Moss, Mr. Harrell, and Mr. Nieuwsma are unable to figure =
out the=20
difference between two consenting adults of the same gender having sex =
and=20
that of a grown adult and a child having sex.</P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Let me explain to them and others that may be confused about =
the=20
difference between two consenting adults having sex versus that =
that of=20
grown adult having sex with a child since they can't figure =
it=20
out.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>A child is not sexually developed, thus he/she does not know what =
sex is. A=20
child doesn't have the mental capability of consenting to something =
they don't=20
understand. If they can not consent to sex and the adult does have sex =
with=20
the child they are committing RAPE.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I am not asking to take my word for it, go and talk to adults that =
were=20
victims of this type of behavior when they were children. The American =
Psychological Association and well as it's counter part in Europe will =
tell=20
you the same thing. As well as 90% of Americans, and 99% of Europeans. =
Even=20
prisoners see a distinctions between a child molester and homosexuals. =
But you=20
know if you can't, that just shows your inability to think logically =
and=20
critically about the differences of one type of sexual behavior and =
another.=20
</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Mr. Moss,</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>No offense, but you are very slow in your comprehension of other =
people. I=20
have engaged in enough heterosexual sex to know that it is not insane. =
I was=20
being sarcastic. I was pointing out your weaknesses in your arguments =
towards=20
gays and lesbians. They can be equally applied to straights. Please, =
catch up=20
with the rest of us. It is hard to have an intellectual conversation =
with=20
someone that can't understand basics of arguments and uses evidence =
from=20
1982 as support scientific evidence. Strom Thurmond obviously =
lives=20
on.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Donovan J Arnold</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>>From: "John Moss" <JOHNMOSS@MOSCOW.COM></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: "Donovan Arnold" <DONOVANARNOLD@HOTMAIL.COM>,=20
<LUKENIEUWSMA@SOFTHOME.NET>, <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay =
Marriage=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 23:48:50 -0700=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Donovan Arnold states that heterosexual relationships =
are=20
insane.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Donovan Arnold states that homosexual man-boy =
relationships are=20
perverse.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Donovan Arnold states that homosexual man-man =
relationships are=20
normal.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Well, for those who believe in a young earth, it has =
taken=20
thousands of instances of insane heterosexual intercourse to produce =
Donovan=20
Arnold. For those who believe in evolution, is has taken millions =
(possibly=20
billions) of instances of insane heterosexual intercourse to produce =
Donovan=20
Arnold.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>That's one heck of a lot of insanity to produce one =
very normal=20
Donovan.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I guess we owe due thanks to some really wacked-out=20
heterosexuals that we are all here today, kicking about and posting =
nonsense=20
onto Vision2020.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>And, while we are at, by what standard, Donovan, do you =
discriminate between the normalcy of consenual man-man relationships =
and the=20
perversion of consensual man-boy relationships?=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Cheers!=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>John=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> From: Donovan Arnold=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> To: lukenieuwsma@softhome.net ; vision2020@moscow.com=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:40 PM=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on =
Gay=20
Marriage=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Luke,=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Nobody is more against relationships between children =
and=20
adults then the homosexual community and civil rights activitists. It =
is you=20
that wishes to connect NAMBLA with the gay community. NAMBLA is a =
pedophilia=20
organization. NOT a gay organization. You have a very twisted concept =
of=20
reality. Every study in America in the last 15 years has shown that =
White=20
Straight Married men are the leaders of child molesting. Look at you =
media=20
cases would you? The "Amber Alert" is always little white girls =
abducted by=20
sick white men, almost all every case, most of them married or =
previously=20
married.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> You write:=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> "For that matter, looking at things from your point of =
view,=20
what would be wrong with simply abolishing all concept of marriage?"=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Nothing, from my perceptive of equal rights. But from =
human=20
rights a big difference. Most marriages are false anyway. It is what =
is in the=20
heart that matters. But Marriages allow for tax breaks, child custody, =
hospital visitation rights, property rights, medical coverage, spousal =
benefits, car insurance, burial rights, death benefits, and a host of =
other=20
issues.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Everyone has the right to decide who they want to =
receive=20
these rights about themselves and their family. That is a basic human =
right. I=20
would hate for someone to tell me that I can't have someone make =
decisions for=20
me in a case of an accident because of the gender of the person, or =
because=20
they disagree with my decision based on "their" religious beliefs. =
This the=20
core of the issue. Not NAMBLA is a small group of freaks that no sense =
of=20
reality or the rights of children.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Donovan J Arnold=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >From: "Luke"=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >To: "Donovan Arnold" , "vision2020"=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban =
on Gay=20
Marriage=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:19:31 -0700=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Greetings, Mr. Arnold,=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > I find it odd that you do not see the connection =
between=20
Nambla and=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >homosexual unions . Someone on this list recently =
pointed=20
out that there is=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >already hypocrisy in heterosexual marriages =
nation-wide;=20
men and women with=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >covenant vows are cheating on their spouses. Now =
what is=20
to stop two men=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >with a "vow" from cheating on each other?=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > For that matter, looking at things from your =
point of=20
view, what would=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >be wrong with simply abolishing all concept of =
marriage?=20
Why should there=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >even be a contract? How can you say mutual consent =
isn't=20
enough?=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > And furthermore, how can you in your worldview =
say that=20
sex between a=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >child and a man is immoral/should be illegal? =
You're=20
imposing your religious=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >views on others!=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >My sincere and respectful regards,=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Luke Nieuwsma=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >P.S. On your earlier post you mentioned under the=20
objection "The parts don't=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >fit" that modern science can tweak a man's body =
into=20
adopting female organs.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >But doesn't that simply fit the heterosexual =
pattern that=20
man was designed=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >for? You cannot escape the way God made the world, =
try as=20
you might.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Luke writes:=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >"What if you have a four-year-old son, and =
they are=20
trying to convince him=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >that he is being >sexually deprived? Suppose =
they were=20
active members of=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >NAMBLA? Not an important >topic to you?"=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Luke WTF? Honestly, you must live in hole =
that exists=20
some where between=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >the years 1892 and 1942.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >First, Mr. Hansen is intelligent to check out =
who is=20
left alone with his=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >children.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Second, what does this have to do with Gay =
Marriage?=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Third, he is worse off leaving his children =
with=20
straight married man then=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >he is gay man or >women chosen at random.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Fourth, this is type of thinking that led to =
the=20
placement of surge=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >protectors on electrical >outlets and warning =
signs on=20
fans that say don't=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >put your finger between the spinning blades.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Fifth, pull your head out of gutter!=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Welcome to the 21st Century Luke!=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Donovan J Arnold=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >From: "Luke"=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >To: vision2020@moscow.com=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional =
Ban on=20
Gay Marriage=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 21:56:50 -0700=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Mr. Hansen,=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > > I most seriously doubt that my 29-year=20
heterosexual marriage will feel=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > > threatened if Jim and John Smith (or =
Mary and=20
Jane Doe) decide to marry=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >and=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > > move next door to me.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >What if you have a four-year-old son, and =
they are=20
trying to convince him=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >that he is being sexually deprived? Suppose =
they were=20
active members of=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >NAMBLA? Not an important topic to you?=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >Luke Nieuwsma=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > =
>_____________________________________________________=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > List services made available by First Step =
Internet,=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since =
1994.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > http://www.fsr.net=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > =
>=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 =
months=20
FREE*.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> >=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
=
<DIV></DIV>>----------------------------------------------------------=
--------------------=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months =
FREE*=20
_____________________________________________________ List services =
made=20
available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the =
Palouse since=20
1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com=20
=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
<HR>
MSN 8 helps <A =
href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMIENUS/2752??PS=3D">ELIMINATE E-MAIL=20
VIRUSES.</A> Get 2 months FREE*.=20
_____________________________________________________ List services =
made=20
available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the =
Palouse since=20
1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com=20
=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=20
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C35CB3.B5A70870--