[RPPTL LandTen] House Bill

Thu Oct 6 15:16:48 PDT 2011

Shane and Harry,

An “open mike” discussion is invaluable in helping to crystallize our thinking about the proposed changes, their objectives and any unintended consequences.  Differences in perspectives are to be hoped for.  

Warren P. Gammill, Esq.

Warren Gammill & Associates

Suite 1050, Courthouse Tower

44 West Flagler Street

Miami, Florida 33130

Telephone: 305-579-0000

Telecopier: 305-371-6927

Gammill at MiamiLawOffice.com

Website: www.gammilllaw.com

From: landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 5:23 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] House Bill

Hi Shane,

I was under the impression that the discussion of the bill was a purpose of the Listserv which is why I sent everyone a copy of the bill.  

Many attorneys are not even aware that termination of month to month means giving notice at least 15 days prior to the end of the monthly rental period which is why I pointed this out. Many tenants, landlords and even attorneys think it is 15 straight days.  If it were 15 straight days, even I might  not have a problem with changing it to 30. 

I don’t think it is about resolving paradigmatic differences here but rather just looking at the real mechanics of the change and the unintended consequences of a seemingly simple change to the statute and how it impacts both parties.

I will await further direction from Neil before I respond any further.

Harry

LAW OFFICES OF 
HEIST, WEISSE, DAVIS & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website:   <http://www.evict.com/> www.evict.com 
Email:  <mailto:harry at evict.com> harry at evict.com

THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY.  ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

From: landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Shane Weaver
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 4:55 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] House Bill

Harry,

Thank you for your response. I know how the termination process works, but I simply disagree with your arguments. I doubt these types of paradigmatic differences can be resolved via e-mail, so I’ll try to stay in Neil’s good graces by not responding any further to the full listserv. 

Shane Weaver, Esq.

Legal Aid Society of Palm Beach County

423 Fern Street, Suite 200

West Palm Beach, FL 33401

Tel. (561) 822-9785

Fax (561) 822-9885

From: landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 3:46 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] House Bill

Hi Shane,

You possibly are making a couple of assumptions regarding the proposed 15 to 30 day change.

1. You assume that most tenants actually give proper notice.

2. You may be looking at it as 15 or 30 straight days which many tenants incorrectly do as well.

To terminate a month to month tenancy under current law, either party must give at least 15 days notice PRIOR TO THE END OF THE MONTHLY RENTAL PERIOD.  Not 15 straight days. So if a landlord decides to terminate on day 20, they must allow the tenant to stay until the end of the next month. If they forget and give notice on the 2nd day of the next month, they simply re-notice for the end of that month.

If changed to 30 days and the landlord forgets or decides on day 2 or day 5 that things are not working out and they want to terminate the month to month tenant, they potentially could have the tenant sit there for up to  59 days.

In a situation where a tenant is causing a significant problem but not enough for a successful  eviction, for example when witnesses are too scared to come to court,  the ease of terminating a month to  month tenant is why 15 days is advantageous and it should stay that way. This also is the case when an owner is wishing to sell and the buyer will only buy it if the unit is unoccupied.

Additionally, many tenants may wish to terminate their month to month quickly for instance when buying a short sale. If the law is changed to 30 days, they too could be stuck on the hook for up to 59 days of rent. 

The hard truth is that most tenants don’t give proper notice and are uncollectable. They just up and move. Putting an additional burden on the owner will simply cause more loss of income to the owner and this loss gets spread around eventually to all tenants in higher rent.

There no coincidence that in states where the laws become  burdensome on the landlord, the rent is higher. 

Finally, this proposed law will severely impact LIHTC properties and put them out of compliance.

Harry

LAW OFFICES OF 
HEIST, WEISSE, DAVIS & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website:   <http://www.evict.com/> www.evict.com 
Email:  <mailto:harry at evict.com> harry at evict.com

THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY.  ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

From: landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Shane Weaver
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 3:23 PM
To: RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] House Bill

By that logic, you could argue that tenants won’t pay their rent in the final month of a written lease because they know it’s ending. Is that really endemic?

The increase from 15 to 30 days is a common-sense change that would benefit both parties. When the tenant is the one terminating, the landlord would have more time to arrange for another tenant before the income stream actually ends.

And while 15 days may not be a lot of time for a landlord, it is extremely little time for a tenant to look for and find other available housing, go through the necessary application/approval procedures, and accomplish the physical move. Giving so little time has always been a recipe for more litigation.

Shane Weaver, Esq.

Legal Aid Society of Palm Beach County

423 Fern Street, Suite 200

West Palm Beach, FL 33401

Tel. (561) 822-9785

Fax (561) 822-9885

From: landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of David Weisman
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 2:22 PM
To: lesstevens at earthlink.net; RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] House Bill

I agree and move the committee to oppose this.

David  Weisman

Board Certified Real Estate Lawyer

Greenspoon Marder, P.A.

Trade Center South, Suite 700

100 West Cypress Creek Road

Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33309

Phone 954-491-1120

Toll Free 888-491-1120

Direct Phone 954-343-6941

Direct Fax 954-343-6942

Email Logo -Resize 30

From: landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of lesstevens
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 1:54 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: Re: [RPPTL LandTen] House Bill

I particularly don’t like the change on month-to-month tenancies from 15 to 30 days….This is inviting Tenants not to pay their last month’s rent, forces Landlord’s to use security deposits and then not have any funds in the event of damage by the Tenant after move-out.

Les H. Stevens, Esquire
Les H. Stevens, P.A.
5301 North Federal Highway
Suite 130
Boca Raton, Florida 33487
Tel. - (561) 989-9797
Fax - (561) 989-8484
E-Mail - lesstevens at earthlink.net

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From: landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Harry Heist
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 1:45 PM
To: 'RPPTL Landlord Tenant Committee'
Subject: [RPPTL LandTen] House Bill

Here is a recently filed bill.

Harry Heist

LAW OFFICES OF 
HEIST, WEISSE, DAVIS & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website:   <http://www.evict.com/> www.evict.com 
Email:  <mailto:harry at evict.com> harry at evict.com

THIS E-MAIL MESSAGE IS CONFIDENTIAL, ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGED, AND INTENDED FOR THE PERSONS NAMED ABOVE ONLY.  ALL OTHER USE, COPYING, OR DISTRIBUTION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

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