[CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?
RPPTL CLC-Discussion
clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Fri Oct 30 07:23:46 PDT 2020
Agreed, we should keep politics out. God knows it pervades every other aspect of our lives these days!
But, on a lighter note, how about a Trump/Biden or Biden/Trump ticket? That would be entertaining. ☺
Stay safe everyone!
Gary L. Brown, Esq.
Partner
Board Certified in Construction Law
10360 West State Road 84
Ft. Lauderdale| FL 33324
954. 370.9970 |Office
954. 382.1988 |Fax
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 4:37 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?
Agree that political issues do not belong on the message board.
ed
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Edward J. Kinberg
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On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 8:24 PM RPPTL CLC-Discussion <clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> wrote:
The Trump supporters should not worry. Biden is running against a guy named George for the Senate which he confirmed again last week. Have you heard about a guy named Bubulinsky?
Probably should keep politics off the CLC discussion forum.
Beth-Ann Schulman
Boyd & Jenerette PA
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> on behalf of RPPTL CLC-Discussion <clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 7:53:40 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?
Wow. All you Republicans are worried about protecting consumers? My subs and suppliers must strictly comply but close enough is ok for consumers? Change the law? Didn’t hear this about 558. You go Rob. Biden in 2020!
Jeffrey L Price
NPWC, PA
5216 SW 91st Dr., Gainesville FL
352-373-9031
On Oct 28, 2020, at 4:23 PM, RPPTL CLC-Discussion <clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> wrote:
If Jeff says we shouldn’t do it, now I KNOW it needs to happen.
In all seriousness though, I think it would be good public policy all around to add it. It doesn’t hurt any of the subs or suppliers we represent. They still have valid liens. It adds some consumer protection for the (perhaps lazy/cheap, or just helplessly uninformed) owner. It adds another tool in the tool box for us to use and possibly have a fee award. The only person it’s bad for is the GC that didn’t pay his subs/suppliers. Even if they had a legitimate reason for non-payment, it probably shouldn’t be the owner’s fight.
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Robert E. Doan
Board Certified Construction Attorney
Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:54 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?
In response to Rob’s original question (“Can anyone think of a compelling reason why 713.346 should not be amended to add a statutory cause of action (with a right to prevailing party fees) for an Owner who is harmed by a lienor’s failure to pay a lower tier lienor?”) – YES. Because of the next part – (“I know the owner should be getting all the proper releases in order to give themselves a proper payment defense, but . . .”). The “but” part is not a good reason to make a change. It is frustrating, “but” everyone has a job to do and the Owner saving a buck by being his own lawyer and getting hosed is no different than a CG saving a buck by being their own lawyer and getting hosed. Hard to legislate away ignorance.
As for Mikes response, I agree - getting a persecutor to give a damn is worthless. The best recourse I’ve found is DBPR. Free, and causes insufferable pain to the contractor. It has always resulted in payment for me because the crappy contractor needs their ticket so they can continue cheating others.
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:03 PM
To: 'clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>' <clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?
Hi Larry!!!!! :0)
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Michelle M. Krone<http://www.kubickidraper.com/staff_detail11.php?MemberID=33>
Shareholder
Board Certified Construction Lawyer
Direct (239) 461-8103
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:54 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?
You only include the “scary seeming remedies” (whatever those are) when the contract is drafted within a week of Halloween. 😊
Larry R. Leiby
Larry R. Leiby, Esq.
Adjunct Professor, Florida International University College of Law
Florida Bar Board Certified Construction Law Expert
Emeritus Fellow, American College of Commercial Arbitrators
From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:50 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?
Presently my take away from this scenario is that when drafting a contract on behalf of an owner you should always include a specific payment indemnity with lots of scary seeming remedies.
Sincerely,
Peter B. Rowell
Board Certified Construction Attorney
The Law Office of Peter B. Rowell, P.A.
8950 S.W. 74th Court Suite 2201 A-71
Miami, Florida 33156
Phone: (305) 998-9657
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
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Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?
I recently encountered this- the bad actor admitted they had been paid and did not pay my client - I was shocked at the lack of causes of action to chase the money – yes , it’s a crime , but that does not really get the money back
Kevin J. Taylor, Esq.
Kevin J. Taylor, P.A.
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Suite 512
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954-530-0889
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 2:04 PM
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Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?
It would be great to be able to plead the permissive inference in Fla. Stat. § 713.345(1)(c) and not try to “shoehorn” it into a cause of action. Can’t be the basis for a civil theft claim.
Thank you,
Jack
Jack Taylor, Esq.
Associate Attorney
Williams Law Firm
212 W. Bay Ave
Longwood, FL 32750
Telephone: 407-926-4100
Jack at WCLfirm.com<mailto:gtwlaw at ymail.com>
www.WCLFirm.com<http://www.wclfirm.com/>
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 1:31 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] 713.346: Time to let Owners in on the party?
I agree with both of you but think 713.346 would be the better place to make the change.
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