[CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

Wed Oct 21 11:07:51 PDT 2020

Arnie, DMV will reject.  Too many characters.  Better go with “SMH 558”.

Michael Gibbons
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 1:52 PM
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Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

Gang: Should I put a hold on my application for a vanity license plate reading “YOLO 558”?   Don’t want to make another mistake like I did with my Jeffrey Toobin tattoo.  Talk amongst yourselves.  Arnie.

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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 11:55 AM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

Dear Colleagues,

Years ago, I was dealing with an equitable subrogation case ala Fishbein (paid off prior mortgage) and the prior mortgage had been paid off by the asserted-invalid mortgage for which enforcement was sought.

The Plaintiff asserted subrogation to step into the shoes of the prior mortgage. The Defendant asserted time limitations on the prior mortgage being enforced under, for example, 95.281 (termination upon passage of 5 years after maturity date where found in the record of it).  We never ended up having to litigate it to a conclusion, but I vaguely remember finding a case where a procedural timing defense (Statute of limitations (not repose or nonclaim – which are substantive)) didn’t hold up as imputed from the prior obligation to the subrogation-asserted obligation.

That said, the idea of leaving a lender under a belief of validity for years then, upon enforcement, raising the timing defense after the passage of time doesn’t inspire a lot of sympathy (a non-legal factor, I understand).

That was in equitable subrogation circumstances. I remember there was some difference in the time limitations being applied in contractual subrogation circumstances vs. equitable subrogation circumstances – but I didn’t feel that should be the case as, ultimately, contractual subrogation is almost in the nature of an assignment to me.

I don’t know what this says for defenses in subrogation generally – whether they could be enhanced beyond the original subrogated-to obligation.  I don’t feel they should be capable of enhancement and, perhaps, only the ‘procedural’.

Sincerely,
Jeremy T. Cranford

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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 10:31 AM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

I don’t recall the statute or case law requiring strict compliance with 558.  I think the “standing in the shoes” argument is compelling.

Lee

A.

Weintraub
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
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Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
Mr. Henderson,

It may be an end around. It may also be that the subrogors are stuck in the shoes of the owner. I haven’t done the full analysis on that.

However, I was addressing the strict compliance with the statute argument. The statute does not specifically identify subrogors or insurance carriers. The legislature in its infinite wisomd chose not to include them despite the concept of subrogation having been around since the beginnings of insurance. So we’re left with the legislature made a policy decision not to include them or made a mistake.

Sanjay

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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 11:06 AM
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Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
Sooo, Mr. Kurian, you’re basically saying subrogation by insurer is an end-run around Chapter 558?  But doesn’t the insurer “step into the shoes” of the insured?

According to Black’s Law Dictionary Free Online Legal Dictionary 2nd Ed. (since I’m not at my office with my printed edition):  “Subrogation denotes the putting a third person who has paid a debt in the place of the creditor to whom he has paid it, so as that he may exercise against the debtor all .. . the rights which the creditor, if unpaid, might have done.”

According to another Google search, Black’s Law Dictionary, 8th ed., defines subrogation as "The principle under which an insurer that has paid a loss under an insurance policy is entitled to all the rights and remedies belonging to the insured against a third party with respect to the loss covered by the policy."

So how does the subrogated insurer have a BETTER claim than the homeowner, pray tell? ☺

Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
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Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.
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In the example a subrogor is not within the definition of claimant used in Chapter 558.
I have not done the analysis but I assume then the contractor is left with common law defenses such as spoliation, voluntary payment, etc.

Sanjay

Kurian
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 6:18 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
I concur that courts read into he disclosure provision the right of counsel to object or withhold on the basis of work product, etc.  Judicial activism is the real problem.  Strict construction of the statute would often lead to harsh results for one side, and too many judges feel the courts should not be forced to dispose of cases or limit evidence because of some statutory roadblock.

Consider this example.  Owner files suit for construction defects.  Before filing suit owner makes all repairs.  Contractor is completely unaware of the existence of any problem since owner never informed contractor via 558 notice or otherwise.  The failure of owner to send a 558 is raised by contractor.  Owner sends a 558.  At that point the alleged defect was already rectified by owner and the contractor was deprived of an opportunity to inspect (since evidence of the defect is gone).  Owner has expert reports and contractor has nothing.  The contractor was also deprived of an opportunity to cure because the owner already resolved the alleged defect.  Outcome.  Court will not limit owner’s evidence as required by 558 and and finds that 558 notice was sufficient and allows case to proceed.  This scenario is regularly playing out in construction defect cases brought via insurer (owner policy) subrogation.

The statute’s teeth need to be sharpened so it is clear what the penalty is and that the court’s must enforce it.

Justin R. Zinzow
Admitted to Practice Florida & Texas
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Fla. Board Certified in Construction Law

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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 5:27 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

558 enforcement is definitely one sided towards the contractor:

  1.  Their insurer has a duty to defend.
  2.  The owner has to conduct a thorough inspection for defects which they can ignore.
  3.   If there is no 558 Notice of Claim, the court will order a stay in the middle of litigation until the owner complies.
Now this.

Talk about limiting access to the courts.

Thank you,
Jack
Jack Taylor, Esq.
Associate Attorney

Williams Law Firm
212 W. Bay Ave
Longwood, FL 32750
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Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 5:08 PM
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Cc: 'Brian Tannenbaum' <btannenbaum at tannenbaumscro.com<mailto:btannenbaum at tannenbaumscro.com>>; 'Salvatore Scro' <sscro at tannenbaumscro.com<mailto:sscro at tannenbaumscro.com>>
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

Three thoughts:

  1.  Civil Procedure seems to be more of a general/broad use for discovery, as opposed to this particular statute that specifically calls for discovery under certain conditions, so it seems like the statute should control
  2.  The wording of the judge’s order seems to only address that discovery can be made through civil procedure, but the statute calls for sanctions. 558 should function to avoid (excessive) litigation and making a request for discovery per 558 fits this objective
  3.  Perhaps a 57.105 motion should have been made specifically citing non-compliance with 558

Paul J. Kelly
Paul J. Kelly, P.A.
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
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Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

Another reminder of how 558 is a real beauty.

Frederick C. Barnes, Esq.
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 4:17 PM
To: 'clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org' <clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>>; Jack at WCLfirm.com<mailto:Jack at WCLfirm.com>
Cc: Brian Tannenbaum <btannenbaum at tannenbaumscro.com<mailto:btannenbaum at tannenbaumscro.com>>; Salvatore Scro <sscro at tannenbaumscro.com<mailto:sscro at tannenbaumscro.com>>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

Agreed and with the 30 day time limit it imposes an obligation and undue burden on contractors to essentially produce their file regardless of whether the 558 has merit or not and most times prior to a response even being due.

[cid:image027.jpg at 01D6A7B3.8C817FD0]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.kubickidraper.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=luZSNc5BERs1Z5eNUoA-RaMFuP9ZlYKC3ZYEOepcKz0&m=SNlMQPMp8h-iJbYL-okg-B884zVolkl3Dt7SOg-33y0&s=X-UYiMAxSz7Kzx7hWg20KGicctqXrH67z0UXuykZtuw&e=>
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 3:57 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>; Jack at WCLfirm.com<mailto:Jack at WCLfirm.com>
Cc: Brian Tannenbaum; Salvatore Scro
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

This result is how I would expect most circuit judges to respond to such a motion.  This section of the statute as originally conceived was arguably a legislative intrusion into the judicial process.  I can’t think of any other situation where a judge would be asked to sanction a party for pre-litigation discovery non-compliance, especially where the contractor is not obliged under the statute to even make an offer.  What if the production response was late or merely incomplete?  What if there were objections to the discovery?  This brings about a whole layer of dispute which I can understand judges not being inclined to deal with.

Alan E. Tannenbaum
Board Certified Construction Lawyer
TANNENBAUM SCRO LEMOLE & KLEINBERG
1990 Main Street, Suite 725
Sarasota, Florida 34236
atannenbaum at tannenbaumscro.com<mailto:atannenbaum at tannenbaumscro.com>
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2020 12:12 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] MTC 558.004(15) document request denied

Good morning all,
We are representing a homeowner in a defect case. I just received an unexpected result on a Motion to Compel Documents requested under Section 558.004(15), Florida Statutes and for the cost of the motion..

At hearing there was no argument that the contractor was in violation of the section. The judge read to him the part of the motion that said :
“Section 558.004 provides that “any party who failed to provide the requested materials shall be subject to such sanctions as the court may impose for a discovery violation.” Fla. Stat. § 558.004(15).”

He asked him why he shouldn’t award sanctions. Opposing counsel agreed that was the law but argued that now that litigation had begun the request should have been re-submitted under the rules of civil procedure.  I argued against that obviously because the wording and the intent of the statute are clear and the contractor had admitted non-compliance. ,  The judge reserved ruling and came back with a denial with the order stating :  “The Plaintiff may seek discovery using the Rules of Civil Procedure. “

This was in Orange County. Any thoughts?

Thank you,
Jack
Jack Taylor, Esq.
Associate Attorney

Williams Law Firm
212 W. Bay Ave
Longwood, FL 32750
Telephone: 407-926-4100

Jack at WCLfirm.com<mailto:gtwlaw at ymail.com>
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