[CLC-Discussion] Who to join when lien boded off under 713.24

Wed Oct 7 16:40:04 PDT 2020

Robert:  You raise some good points.  It might not always work for the reasons you so eloquently point out.  My point is simply that it’s a tool in the toolkit which should not be overlooked.

Sent from my iPhone

Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
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On Oct 7, 2020, at 6:17 PM, RPPTL CLC-Discussion <clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org> wrote:

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.
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All of which fails to address the elephant in the living room of how does the court force a party who posted the cash deposit, or a surety on a transfer bond, to increase the penal sum when it/they do not have the financial means to do so or where there is a surety, the surety does not want to based upon underwriting concerns with the principal?

Due process seems to say a judge cannot force a surety to undertake additional contractual risk without being compensated. Same problem where owner transfers the lein to cash security (no bonding company) and then conveys the property, free and clear. Strike pleadings? Maybe, but that is not going to put the additional attorney fees into the pot.  I was able to successfully defend against such a Motion in Federal Court where the Plaintiff’s attorney decided to create diversity jurisdiction by only suing the surety on the transfer bond, leaving out of the case the contractor-principal.

Regards,
Robert B. Worman
Robert B. Worman
Worman & Sheffler, P.A.
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2020 5:20 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who to join when lien boded off under 713.24

The dicta in Royal Marble does point to a suggested and typical workaround, that is
… although the trial court's order prevents Royal Marble from seeking prospective attorney's fees, the company may continue to file motions seeking to increase the bond as it incurs fees that exceed the amount of  the security bond that is set aside for fees and court costs. Royal Marble, Inc. v. Innovative Flooring & Stonecrafters of SWF, Inc., 932 So. 2d 221, 222-23 (Fla. 2d DCA 2005)

To get prospective fees, you would have to at least show (1) that the judge may order an increase to cover prospective fees (2) the prospective fees are reasonable. A defense attorney does not give  in on those but proposing them is not forbidden.

Thank you,
Jack
Jack Taylor, Esq.
Associate Attorney

Williams Law Firm
212 W. Bay Ave
Longwood, FL 32750
Telephone: 407-926-4100

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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2020 2:26 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who to join when lien boded off under 713.24

Let’s consider the rest of the language:

(3) Any party having an interest in such security or the property from which the lien was transferred may at any time, and any number of times, file a complaint in chancery in the circuit court of the county where such security is deposited, or file a motion in a pending action to enforce a lien, for an order to require additional security, reduction of security, change or substitution of sureties, payment of discharge thereof, or any other matter affecting said security. If the court finds that the amount of the deposit or bond in excess of the amount claimed in the claim of lien is insufficient to pay the lienor’s attorney’s fees and court costs incurred in the action to enforce the lien, the court must increase the amount of the cash deposit or lien transfer bond.

Read in context, it seems to me the court MUST increase the security if the movant has already incurred the fees, but this does not affect the court’s discretion (i.e., whether the court MAY increase the security) based on prospective fees.  And the Royal Marble decision is a certiorari jurisdiction case – it did not reach the merits of the decision below, only that it did not constitute “irreparable harm.”

Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
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Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2020 1:29 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who to join when lien boded off under 713.24

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.
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The statute does say incurred

“If the court finds that the amount of the deposit or bond in excess of the amount claimed in the claim of lien is insufficient to pay the lienor’s attorney’s fees and court costs incurred in the action to enforce the lien, the court must increase the amount of the cash deposit or lien transfer bond.” Fla. Stat. § 713.24(3).

You have to keep/add  the principal as a party to get them to pay any excess attorneys fees and costs.

Thank you,
Jack
Jack Taylor, Esq.
Associate Attorney

Williams Law Firm
212 W. Bay Ave
Longwood, FL 32750
Telephone: 407-926-4100

Jack at WCLfirm.com<mailto:gtwlaw at ymail.com>
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2020 1:06 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who to join when lien boded off under 713.24

As a follow up, I did find this case which seems to support Lee’s analysis.

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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2020 12:35 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who to join when lien boded off under 713.24

If I’m not mistaken, I think you can only move to increase the deposit for fees you actually already incurred, not fees you anticipate incurring in the future.

Lee

A.

Weintraub

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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2020 12:32 PM
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Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who to join when lien boded off under 713.24

[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
You should also consider filing a motion pursuant to s. 713.24(3) for an order to increase the cash security to cover your attorney’s fees, as the statutory formula only requires $1,000 or 25% of the amount demanded for attorney’s fees and costs.  So if you’re suing on a $100k lien, that’s only $25,000.

Reese J. Henderson, Jr.
Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2020 11:44 AM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who to join when lien boded off under 713.24

This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.
________________________________
Assuming you already sued the property owner to foreclose the lien (before bonding) and that the same owner entity is the principal on the cash bond, then you  don’t need to add a new  party.  You just need to amend your Complaint to reflect that the relief requested is no longer the foreclosure of a lien on real property but a foreclosure against the bond proceeds deposited with the Clerk as substitute security for Plaintiff’s lien claim.  You still have to prove up the lien elements but at the end of the day your final judgment is not for the sale of real property to satisfy the lien but a direction to the Clerk to release to the Plaintiff the judgment amount from the  funds held by Clerk as substitute security for the lien.

Michael Gibbons
Shareholder
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LOCAL ROOTS. BROAD REACH. SM

From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of RPPTL CLC-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2020 10:02 AM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Who to join when lien boded off under 713.24

CAUTION: THIS IS AN EXTERNAL EMAIL

Good Morning,
I am involved in a construction lien case, where is the owner has bonded off the lien under 713.24 by depositing the funds in the court registry.  I know I need to amend to join in the surety, however, in this case there is no a separate surety as the owner deposited the funds with the clerk pursuant to 713.24 (1)(a).  Do I join the Clerk of Court?

Laurie B. Sams
Van Winkle & Sams, P.A.
3859 Bee Ridge Road, Suite 202
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fax (941) 923-0174
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