[CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?

Wed Jul 1 13:29:46 PDT 2020

Great series of emails on a big issue in our business particularly for
lawyers that do not routinely practice this area.

I agree with Dan's comments.  The client needs to sign the claim of lien.
If not, the attorney then becomes a potential fact witness as to how the
dates and values in the lien were determined. To me, this is a common
sense,  business issue.  Attorney's can probably sign the claim of lien but
that is questionable given the change in the statute. Why take the risk.

My practice is to have a client  fill out a claim of a lien worksheet with
the key information.  We use the worksheet to draft a proposed lien for the
client to review.  We don't sign (except in the last couple of days
emergencies in rare cases when the client is not local), we have the client
sign and also  have the client sign our worksheet saying they have reviewed
the claim of lien and personally confirmed it is accurate before they sign.

As others have noted, I am not as strict with  releases as they remove
impediments to title as opposed to a lien which  creates an impediment.

Thanks to all for an interesting diversion.

Ed
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On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 3:52 PM Dan Vega <DVega at tevtlaw.com> wrote:

> Again, if an employee of the client prepares the form and it is reviewed
> and signed by the owner’s president, the lienor prepared it.
>
>
>
> if the lienor’s president’s daughter types up the form consulting with her
> dad and the dad/president reviews and signs it, it is same thing – the
> lienor prepared it.
>
>
>
> If the lienor goes to his lawyers office (Becker and Poliakoff) to meet
> you to help him fill out the form, and you do but he reviews and signs it,
> Lienor prepared it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
>
> Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
>
> Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
>
> Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
>
> 201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
>
> Coral Gables, Florida 33134
>
> Telephone: (305) 443-2043
>
> Facsimile:  (305) 443-2048
>
> Cell:  (305) 962-5186
>
> E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com
>
> www.tevtlaw.com
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> *From:* Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at beckerlawyers.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 1, 2020 3:23 PM
> *To:* Dan Vega <DVega at TEVTLaw.com>
> *Cc:* Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>;
> clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> *Subject:* RE: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
>
>
>
> Clients can always do things for themselves.  If a third party does it for
> someone else, that third party needs to be a lawyer (in this situation).
>
>
>
> *Lee***
>
>
>
> *A.*
>
>
>
> *Weintraub*
>
> Shareholder
> Board Certified in Construction Law
> Chair, Public Private Partnerships Practice Group
> Vice Chair, Construction Law and Litigation Practice Group
>
>
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>
> Becker & Poliakoff
>
> 1 East Broward Blvd., Suite 1800
>
> Ft. Lauderdale,
>
> FL
>
> 33301
>
> *954.985.4147* <954.985.4147>
>
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> *From:* Dan Vega <DVega at TEVTLaw.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 1, 2020 3:22 PM
> *To:* Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at beckerlawyers.com>
> *Cc:* Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>;
> clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> *Subject:* Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
>
>
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
>
> That would happen to any client who prepares its own liens lee.
>
>
>
> The noc would also be recorded against the wrong property.
>
>
>
> What is the point?  That only lawyers should prepare liens?
>
>
>
> If lienor can prepare lien, the fact lienor signs it, means client
> prepared it.   Like anything else. I can draft a letter for you.  If u sign
> it and send it out, you prepared it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
>
> Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
>
> Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
>
> Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
>
> 201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
>
> Coral Gables, Florida 33134
>
> Telephone: (305) 443-2043
>
> Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
>
> Cell: (305) 962-5186
>
> E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com
>
>
>
> On Jul 1, 2020, at 2:38 PM, Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at beckerlawyers.com>
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> And if the NOC was incorrect and she liened the wrong property, I hope she
> has insurance.  Reliance on an NOC is not a defense to a defective lien.
>
>
>
> *Lee***
>
>
>
> *A.*
>
>
>
> *Weintraub*
>
> Shareholder
> Board Certified in Construction Law
> Chair, Public Private Partnerships Practice Group
> Vice Chair, Construction Law and Litigation Practice Group
>
> <image127546.png>
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beckerlawyers.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7C4e7aa5f896c84ab2646908d81df43f6e%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292282176736355&sdata=rTzyYQ383JUVgHf2JzjKUTmmCIPPDRHIOyN4EB%2BTs3A%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> Becker & Poliakoff
>
> 1 East Broward Blvd., Suite 1800
>
> Ft. Lauderdale,
>
> FL
>
> 33301
>
> <image186928.png>
>
> *954.985.4147* <954.985.4147>
>
> <image369081.png>
>
> *954.985.4176*
>
> <image097300.png>
>
> *lweintraub at beckerlawyers.com* <lweintraub at beckerlawyers.com>
>
> <image307104.png>
>
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> *From:* clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org <
> clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> *On Behalf Of *Dan Vega
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:35 PM
> *To:* Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>
> *Cc:* clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> *Subject:* Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
>
>
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL]
>
> No. But she can copy the legal from the notice of commencement
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
>
> Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
>
> Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
>
> Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
>
> 201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
>
> Coral Gables, Florida 33134
>
> Telephone: (305) 443-2043
>
> Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
>
> Cell: (305) 962-5186
>
> E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com
>
>
>
> On Jul 1, 2020, at 1:23 PM, Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <
> Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Here’s a link for the curious -
> https://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-supreme-court/1717326.html
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>
>
>
>
> *Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder*
> *Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law*
> *Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator*
> *G R A Y** | **R O B I N S O N*
>
> 50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
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>
> *From:* Adam C. Linkhorst <ACL at floridahardhatlaw.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:18 PM
> *To:* Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>; Dan
> Vega <DVega at TEVTLaw.com>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1 at aol.com>
> *Cc:* clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> *Subject:* Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
>
>
>
> *This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.*
> ------------------------------
>
> Take a look at SC13-889. It may be helpful. Deals with property mangers
> but seems very instruction and has a lot behind it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Adam C. Linkhorst, Esq.
>
> Linkhorst & Hockin, P.A.
>
> C - 954.562.9199
>
> W - 561.626.8880
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org <
> clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> on behalf of Reese J.
> Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 1, 2020 11:09:26 AM
> *To:* Dan Vega <DVega at TEVTLaw.com>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1 at aol.com>
> *Cc:* clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org <
> clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
>
>
>
> Dan:  Does your 15 year old daughter know how to prepare a proper legal
> description of the property that your client’s lien will encumber?  Does
> your daughter, or any layperson for that matter, appreciate the gravity and
> potential ramifications of making an error in the calculation of the lien
> amount (i.e., fraudulent lien exposure)?  Preparing a lien is hardly a
> trivial task.
>
>
>
>
> *Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder*
> *Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law*
> *Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator*
> *G R A Y** | **R O B I N S O N*
>
> 50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
> *T: *904-598-9929 | *F: *904-598-9109 | *D: *904-632-8459
> E-mail <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com> | Website
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gray-robinson.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7C4e7aa5f896c84ab2646908d81df43f6e%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292282176825961&sdata=K6J%2FdAFqsDeuK6PhlEJiL7RrljKG7%2BENsmAgrjJB7MI%3D&reserved=0> |
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>
> *From:* clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org <
> clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> *On Behalf Of *Dan Vega
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:01 PM
> *To:* Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1 at aol.com>
> *Cc:* clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> *Subject:* Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
>
>
>
> *This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.*
> ------------------------------
>
> What does prepare the lien mean?
>
>
>
> My 15 year old daughter can take the form in the statute and fill the
> blanks with the info provided by a client.  The client then signs it.
>
>
>
> Who prepared the lien?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
>
> Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
>
> Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
>
> Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
>
> 201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
>
> Coral Gables, Florida 33134
>
> Telephone: (305) 443-2043
>
> Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
>
> Cell: (305) 962-5186
>
> E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com
>
>
>
> On Jul 1, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1 at aol.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> As far as the execution of liens the word "attorney" was removed from the
> statute in 1977. Now Section 713.08(2) does not provide authority for an
> attorney to execute liens unless the attorney happens to be "acquainted
> with the facts stated therein." This highly unlikely unless the attorney
> also works as an employee of the lienor.  This makes a fun day in a
> deposition.
>
>
>
> As far as releases go any individual with authority (including attorneys)
> can execute releases. Section 713.20 does not include a limitation on who
> can sign the releases of lien.
>
>
>
>
>
> Under Section 713.08(2) the discussion becomes much more interesting as to
> who can prepare the liens . Many throughout the state that are not
> permitted are preparing liens. This is clearly the unlicensed practice of
> law.  The Florida Bar has sent cease and desist letters to various
> companies and non-lawyer individuals for preparing liens.
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Barry Kalmanson
>
> 500 N Maitland Avenue
>
> Suite 305
>
> Maitland, Fl. 32751
>
> 407-645-4500 x 215
>
>
>
> http://www.barrykalmanson.com/
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.barrykalmanson.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7C4e7aa5f896c84ab2646908d81df43f6e%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292282176845874&sdata=MEXP%2BuYHcs5uBfy%2Frdc7bElDfJH7rAfQqUmPRKv5iGw%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Partington <bpartington at clarkpartington.com>
> To: Jeffrey Price <jeff at npw-law.com>; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> <clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
> Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2020 10:24 am
> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
>
> For what it’s worth, and 692 is part of it, it’s been my policy for years
> never to sign liens or releases on behalf of clients. Another reason is
> that the jurat is taking an oath that what is in it is true, and I think
> it’s best that clients do that. (A release would formally probably only
> require an acknowledgement, but a lien definitely requires a jurat).
>
>
>
> I think the beginning of 692.01 makes it relatively clear:
>
> Any corporation may execute instruments conveying, mortgaging, or affecting
> any interest in lands by instruments sealed with the common or corporate
> seal and signed in its name by its president or any vice president or chief
> executive officer. Assignments, satisfactions, or partial releases of
> mortgages and acquittances for debts may be similarly executed by any
> corporate officer.
>
>
>
> But, read carefully, that only applies to acknowledgements, not jurats,
> because pretty much all instruments affecting any interests in lands,
> except a construction lien, require only an acknowledgement.
>
>
>
> *Bruce Partington | Shareholder*
> bpartington at clarkpartington.com | (850) 432-1399 <callto:(850)%20432-1399>
>
> *CLARK PARTINGTON*
> Office: (850) 434-9200 | Fax: (850) 432-7340
> 125 East Intendencia Street, 4th Floor
> Pensacola, Florida 32502
> clarkpartington.com
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fclarkpartington.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7C4e7aa5f896c84ab2646908d81df43f6e%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292282176855831&sdata=lSPxs%2FzGoJipU%2BoiOX7%2BHlD664MMvvoUFWPkVn6l6lY%3D&reserved=0>
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>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org <
> clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> *On Behalf Of *Jeffrey Price
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:05 AM
> *To:* clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> *Subject:* [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
>
>
>
> Delivered a partial lien release for a single condo where client has a
> lien on the entire complex. This was the 6th at this condo for routine
> sales (Miami-Dade) and was no different that the other 5 (or other 20-some
> in the last 6 months on other complexes). The release was prepared by me
> (Attorney for Lienor), signed by me as “Agent/Attorney for Lienor.”
>
>
>
> Got into a dispute about the release form (not the amount). First they
> wanted the jurat changed to duplicate the language as of Jan. 1, 2020
> (despite the statute saying the jurat “must be in substantially the
> following form”). Whatever. Fine.
>
>
>
> But then this is forwarded to me. I called “Connie” but because I am not a
> member of “The Fund” she refused to discuss anything and hung up the phone.
> (You that have dealt with me can understand, hell, I don’t even like
> talking to me in a mirror).
>
>
>
> *Question* – has anyone ever heard of this line of reasoning? Does 692
> have anything to do with 713 liens and releases?
>
>
>
> *“The release is signed an agent of a Florida corporation.  Under Sec.
> 692.01, F.S.,  a corporate officer may sign partial releases of mortgages
> and acquittances for debts. There is no authority for anyone other than a
> corporate officer to sign such a document.”*
>
> *connie Clark*
>
> Senior Underwriting Counsel
>
>
>
> P: 800.432.9594
>
> <image001.png>
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