[CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
Dan Vega
DVega at TEVTLaw.com
Wed Jul 1 12:21:46 PDT 2020
That would happen to any client who prepares its own liens lee.
The noc would also be recorded against the wrong property.
What is the point? That only lawyers should prepare liens?
If lienor can prepare lien, the fact lienor signs it, means client prepared it. Like anything else. I can draft a letter for you. If u sign it and send it out, you prepared it.
Sent from my iPhone
Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com
On Jul 1, 2020, at 2:38 PM, Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at beckerlawyers.com> wrote:
And if the NOC was incorrect and she liened the wrong property, I hope she has insurance. Reliance on an NOC is not a defense to a defective lien.
Lee A. Weintraub
Shareholder
Board Certified in Construction Law
Chair, Public Private Partnerships Practice Group
Vice Chair, Construction Law and Litigation Practice Group
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:35 PM
To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>
Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
No. But she can copy the legal from the notice of commencement
Sent from my iPhone
Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com<mailto:dvega at tevtlaw.com>
On Jul 1, 2020, at 1:23 PM, Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com<mailto:Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>> wrote:
Here’s a link for the curious - https://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-supreme-court/1717326.html<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcaselaw.findlaw.com%2Ffl-supreme-court%2F1717326.html&data=02%7C01%7Cdvega%40tevtlaw.com%7Cf1ecb890e7eb4df6150708d81dedfd3e%7C77483cb9f33c4c7686e8bcfe43eb03ef%7C0%7C0%7C637292255308126727&sdata=VABy4jNtXvU5l5XO%2BZG9LM5T6A8i9O1x4vTxe22Rscg%3D&reserved=0>
Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N
50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
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From: Adam C. Linkhorst <ACL at floridahardhatlaw.com<mailto:ACL at floridahardhatlaw.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:18 PM
To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com<mailto:Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>>; Dan Vega <DVega at TEVTLaw.com<mailto:DVega at TEVTLaw.com>>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1 at aol.com<mailto:bkpa1 at aol.com>>
Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.
________________________________
Take a look at SC13-889. It may be helpful. Deals with property mangers but seems very instruction and has a lot behind it.
Adam C. Linkhorst, Esq.
Linkhorst & Hockin, P.A.
C - 954.562.9199
W - 561.626.8880
________________________________
From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> on behalf of Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com<mailto:Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 11:09:26 AM
To: Dan Vega <DVega at TEVTLaw.com<mailto:DVega at TEVTLaw.com>>; Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1 at aol.com<mailto:bkpa1 at aol.com>>
Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
Dan: Does your 15 year old daughter know how to prepare a proper legal description of the property that your client’s lien will encumber? Does your daughter, or any layperson for that matter, appreciate the gravity and potential ramifications of making an error in the calculation of the lien amount (i.e., fraudulent lien exposure)? Preparing a lien is hardly a trivial task.
Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
G R A Y | R O B I N S O N
50 North Laura Street, Suite 1100 | Jacksonville, Florida 32202
T: 904-598-9929 | F: 904-598-9109 | D: 904-632-8459
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 1:01 PM
To: Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1 at aol.com<mailto:bkpa1 at aol.com>>
Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
This message originated outside of GrayRobinson.
________________________________
What does prepare the lien mean?
My 15 year old daughter can take the form in the statute and fill the blanks with the info provided by a client. The client then signs it.
Who prepared the lien?
Sent from my iPhone
Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Florida Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, PLLC
201 Alhambra Circle, Suite 801
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com<mailto:dvega at tevtlaw.com>
On Jul 1, 2020, at 12:52 PM, Barry Kalmanson <bkpa1 at aol.com<mailto:bkpa1 at aol.com>> wrote:
As far as the execution of liens the word "attorney" was removed from the statute in 1977. Now Section 713.08(2) does not provide authority for an attorney to execute liens unless the attorney happens to be "acquainted with the facts stated therein." This highly unlikely unless the attorney also works as an employee of the lienor. This makes a fun day in a deposition.
As far as releases go any individual with authority (including attorneys) can execute releases. Section 713.20 does not include a limitation on who can sign the releases of lien.
Under Section 713.08(2) the discussion becomes much more interesting as to who can prepare the liens . Many throughout the state that are not permitted are preparing liens. This is clearly the unlicensed practice of law. The Florida Bar has sent cease and desist letters to various companies and non-lawyer individuals for preparing liens.
Sincerely,
Barry Kalmanson
500 N Maitland Avenue
Suite 305
Maitland, Fl. 32751
407-645-4500 x 215
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-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Partington <bpartington at clarkpartington.com<mailto:bpartington at clarkpartington.com>>
To: Jeffrey Price <jeff at npw-law.com<mailto:jeff at npw-law.com>>; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2020 10:24 am
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
For what it’s worth, and 692 is part of it, it’s been my policy for years never to sign liens or releases on behalf of clients. Another reason is that the jurat is taking an oath that what is in it is true, and I think it’s best that clients do that. (A release would formally probably only require an acknowledgement, but a lien definitely requires a jurat).
I think the beginning of 692.01 makes it relatively clear:
Any corporation may execute instruments conveying, mortgaging, or affecting any interest in lands by instruments sealed with the common or corporate seal and signed in its name by its president or any vice president or chief executive officer. Assignments, satisfactions, or partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts may be similarly executed by any corporate officer.
But, read carefully, that only applies to acknowledgements, not jurats, because pretty much all instruments affecting any interests in lands, except a construction lien, require only an acknowledgement.
Bruce Partington | Shareholder
bpartington at clarkpartington.com<mailto:bpartington at clarkpartington.com> | (850) 432-1399<callto:(850)%20432-1399>
CLARK PARTINGTON
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> <clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org>> On Behalf Of Jeffrey Price
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2020 9:05 AM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Who can sign liens and releases?
Delivered a partial lien release for a single condo where client has a lien on the entire complex. This was the 6th at this condo for routine sales (Miami-Dade) and was no different that the other 5 (or other 20-some in the last 6 months on other complexes). The release was prepared by me (Attorney for Lienor), signed by me as “Agent/Attorney for Lienor.”
Got into a dispute about the release form (not the amount). First they wanted the jurat changed to duplicate the language as of Jan. 1, 2020 (despite the statute saying the jurat “must be in substantially the following form”). Whatever. Fine.
But then this is forwarded to me. I called “Connie” but because I am not a member of “The Fund” she refused to discuss anything and hung up the phone. (You that have dealt with me can understand, hell, I don’t even like talking to me in a mirror).
Question – has anyone ever heard of this line of reasoning? Does 692 have anything to do with 713 liens and releases?
“The release is signed an agent of a Florida corporation. Under Sec. 692.01, F.S., a corporate officer may sign partial releases of mortgages and acquittances for debts. There is no authority for anyone other than a corporate officer to sign such a document.”
connie Clark
Senior Underwriting Counsel
P: 800.432.9594
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