[CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies

[Frederick C. Barnes]

All 22 have been worthy.

Frederick C. Barnes
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 28, 2016, at 10:18 AM, Neal Sivyer <NSivyer at sbwlegal.com> wrote:
> 
> Guys please have mercy.   There 22 emails to everyone in our group on this issue this morning.   
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> Neal Sivyer
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> From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Dan Vega
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 9:53 AM
> To: Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at bplegal.com>; Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>; CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com
> Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies
>  
> And a lay person employee does? 
>  
> Not a convincing argument at all. 
>  
> Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
> Board Certified in Construction Law & Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
> Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, P.A.
> 2555 Ponce De Leon Blvd., Suite 220
> Coral Gables, Florida 33134
> Telephone: (305) 443-2043
> Facsimile:  (305) 443-2048
> Cell:  (305) 962-5186
> E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com
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> From: Weintraub, Lee [mailto:lweintraub at bplegal.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 9:52 AM
> To: Dan Vega <DVega at tevtlaw.com>; Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>; CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com
> Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies
>  
> The NTO company has no idea how to handle complex property description issues, etc. and the lienor has no idea that the NTO company has no idea.  That is the whole point of unauthorized practice of law.
>  
>  
> Lee A. Weintraub
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> From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Dan Vega
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 9:49 AM
> To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>; CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com
> Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies
>  
> Reese, if it is a bad lien it is a bad lien.  Case over, you win and other side pays fees. 
>  
> As to a notice company preparing a bad lien, then the lienor should not sign it.  If the lienor signs it, the lienor buys it.  Same result occurs if the employee prepares a bad lien and then the lienor/boss signs it. 
>  
>  
>  
> Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
> Board Certified in Construction Law & Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
> Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, P.A.
> 2555 Ponce De Leon Blvd., Suite 220
> Coral Gables, Florida 33134
> Telephone: (305) 443-2043
> Facsimile:  (305) 443-2048
> Cell:  (305) 962-5186
> E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com
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> From: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. [mailto:Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 9:46 AM
> To: Dan Vega <DVega at tevtlaw.com>; CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com
> Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies
>  
> Dan,
>  
> A claim of lien is more than just a notice to owner that is dropped in the mail.  It is recorded in the public records and places a cloud on someone’s title to real property.  It exposes the owner of the property to loss through inability to sell the property, refinance, etc.  It consequently exposes the party recording the lien to potential liability for slander of title as well as filing a fraudulent lien.  Preparing a claim of lien requires an ability to accurately determine and insert a legal description to real property, accurately compile the amount of the claim of lien and ensure that notice of that claim of lien is properly delivered to the owner.  The statute specifically authorizes a lienor to act “pro se” to prepare and record its own claim of lien (even though, if it is an entity, it would not be able to act “pro se” to file an action to enforce that claim of lien in court).  However, that is very different from another party or entity preparing that claim of lien for the lienor.  That is called the practice of law.
>  
> I can tell you from personal experience that notice companies file bad liens all the time.  They are not trained as attorneys.  If an attorney improperly prepares a claim of lien and the client pays the price, the attorney has malpractice coverage to compensate the client.  What sort of insurance do you suppose the notice companies have for their clients?
>  
> Reese
>  
> 
> Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
> Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
> Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
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> From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Dan Vega
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 8:22 AM
> To: CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com
> Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies
>  
> If the lien is defective, it is defective.  
>  
> Are you all saying that a secretary at a subcontractors office cannot prepare the lien even though it is signed by the president of the sub? 
>  
> If a notice company prepares the lien form based on info provided by the sub, and the sub president signs it, what is wrong w that? 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
>  
> Daniel R. Vega
> Board Certified in Construction Law
> Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, P.A. 
> 2555 Ponce De Leon Blvd., Suite 220
> Coral Gables, Florida 33134
> Telephone: (305) 443-2043
> Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
> Cell: (305) 962-5186
> E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com 
> 
> On Jul 28, 2016, at 8:12 AM, Charles B. Hernicz, Esq <CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree Brian.  Notice companies offer this and prepare liens all the time.  I’ve had to deal with numerous defective liens from notice companies.  This was outlawed in 713.08 in 2007, but it is not being policed or enforced.
>  
> Chuck
>  
> Charles B. Hernicz, Esq.
> Board Certified in Construction Law by The Florida Bar           
> Hernicz Legal Services, P.L.
> 15854 Bent Creek Road 
> Wellington, FL 33414 
> Telephone: (561) 753-7511 
> Facsimile: (561) 753-7082 
> Chernicz at HerniczLegal.com
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> From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Wolf, Brian
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 10:08 AM
> To: Michael J. Kurzman; 'Alex Barthet'; Arnold Tritt; Willis, David; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies
>  
> If the committee is going to address this issue, the committee should also address the larger problem of “lien notice services” offering to prepare claims of lien.
>  
> Brian A. Wolf
> Partner
> Board Certified Construction Attorney
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> From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Michael J. Kurzman
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 9:34 AM
> To: 'Alex Barthet'; Arnold Tritt; Willis, David; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies
>  
> Perhaps a letter to the Florida Attorney General’s office to see if they are interested in looking into the matter?
>  
> It seems to me that if you can show they are using false and misleading information, the Attorney General may be interested…
>  
> Michael J Kurzman, Esq.
> Florida Bar Certified In Construction Law
> Weiss Serota Helfman Cole & Bierman
> 200 East Broward Boulevard - Suite 1900
> Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33301
> 954 763 4242
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> From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Alex Barthet
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 9:13 AM
> To: Arnold Tritt; Willis, David; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies
>  
> Arnie – I can’t argue with your logic about Grade A clients.  Grade B clients help pay the bills and may be susceptible.  Grade C clients, good riddance. 
>  
> That said, as officers of the court knowing that they are fraudulently inducing those in the construction industry to hire them with false promises, if there is something we can do, we probably should.
>  
> Regards,
> Alex Barthet
> Board Certified in Construction Law
> TheLienZone Construction Law Blog
> vCard | Biography
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> The Barthet Firm
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> alex at barthet.com
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> From: Arnold Tritt [mailto:arnold.tritt at atritt.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 9:05 AM
> To: Alex Barthet <Alex at barthet.com>; Willis, David <dwillis at rumberger.com>; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> Subject: RE: Texas Collection Agencies
>  
> MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING.  Grade A business / construction clients don’t forsake their relationship with their legal counsel and engage an out-of-state collection agency to collect on a Claim of Lien based on a phone solicitation any more than Grade A business / construction clients engage an attorney in response to a radio spot.  The Texas boys have been at it for years and your Grade A clients will always call you when they are contacted by such folks. If your client was ever to be duped by such tactics it was not Grade A and should be dropped and referred to your competition.  Just my thoughts.  Arnie.
>  
> From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Alex Barthet
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 8:43 AM
> To: Willis, David <dwillis at rumberger.com>; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies
>  
> David - I have tried to call on numerous occasions after they call my clients and they never call me back.  Once they know a lawyer is involved, they seem to duck back into the shadows. 
>  
> Regards,
> Alex Barthet
> Board Certified in Construction Law
> TheLienZone Construction Law Blog
> vCard | Biography
>  
> The Barthet Firm
> 200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1800
> Miami, Florida 33131
> 305-347-5295
> alex at barthet.com
> www.barthet.com
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> This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information.  If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender.  Thank you.
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> From: Willis, David [mailto:dwillis at rumberger.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 8:36 AM
> To: Alex Barthet <Alex at barthet.com>; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> Subject: RE: Texas Collection Agencies
>  
> I have heard similar stories.  Milton Myers went away when I returned the call.
>  
>  
> 
> David C. Willis
> Board Certified in Construction Law and Business Litigation
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> From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Alex Barthet
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 7:32 AM
> To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
> Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies
>  
> Good morning all.  I am writing about an issue that I am seeing with increasing frequency.  The purpose of this email is to (i) alert the community of this practice, (ii) learn if others are hearing the same thing from their clients and (iii) see if folks smarter than me have any ideas how to deal with, or ideally, stop them.
>  
> Many of our clients that record liens are receiving unsolicited calls from collection agencies out of Texas, the two most common we are seeing are Tucker Albin and Assoc. (http://tuckeralbin.net/) and Milton Myers and Assoc. (http://www.mmatx.net/).  Obviously, they are getting the clients’ information by pulling the liens from the public records.
>  
> The problem is that they are making blatantly false statements such as they are working with others on the project and can guaranty payment if the client signs up, or they are representing several other lienors on the same project that are about the get paid and if the client signs up, he can get them paid now.  The reason I know these statements are false is because in the last two occasions that my clients received these calls, they were the only lienors on the projects and on both, I was already in contact with counsel for both the contractor and owner negotiating settlements.
>  
> I look forward to hearing from the group.
>  
> Regards,
> Alex Barthet
> Board Certified in Construction Law
> vCard | Biography
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> The Barthet Firm
> 200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1800
> Miami, Florida 33131
> 305-347-5295
> alex at barthet.com
> www.barthet.com
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> This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information.  If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender.  Thank you.
>  
> Michael Kurzman
> Partner, Florida Bar Certified in Construction Law
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