[CLC-Discussion] design services

Thu Jul 18 08:04:19 PDT 2013

The opening comment should be that every project is different, so ‘past history is not a promise of future success.’ As one possible indicator, prior to the 2008 crash, I represented a developer in a large multi-building project (13 two story office/retail/restaurant buildings plus a 3 story garage). Total project budget was just under $50 million. I don’t have the exact numbers, but remember that surveying ran somewhere in the $10-20 thousand range, civil engineers were something like $125 thousand, landscape architect was about $60 thousand, and my file copy of the contract with the architect shows architect fees (which included structural engineers they engaged) were roughly $640 thousand for plans and $210 thousand for construction administration. We had used the architects also for conceptual illustrations to use with the county for variance and permitting related stuff, and for courting lenders. They were engaged separately for that work and I don’t recall what they were paid. 

That would make total fees something like 2% give or take. We negotiated fees pretty hard. The architects didn’t like it, but CA was a flat fee. Hope this helps.

Regards,

Lan White

(727) 797-5599

From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Mark Young
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 11:18 PM
To: 'George Truitt'; hroberts at carltonfields.com; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] design services

A fair fee is whatever your client negotiates with the architectural firm.  By selecting the architectural firm first (before getting competitive proposals and price quotes from other design firms), your client sole sourced the architectural firm at whatever fee the architects think they can get for their services.

As background information…I worked as a Project Engineer in Pembroke Pines in the mid 1990’s designing subdivisions and apartment complexes when Pembroke Pines was the fastest growing city in the United States.  Land developers hired architects to create the site plan (layout of the entire subdivision, lot divisions, road layout, housepad locations, etc, which was a lot of work.  This included creating the master CAD (Computer Aided Drafting) file for the site.  Land developers hired engineers to perform the drainage design, layout water lines, sewer lines, paving and grading, permitting, etc.  In my opinion, the engineers scope of services were a lot easier than the architects.  The engineer’s designs were super-imposed upon the architect’s layout design with CAD files.  The architects did a disproportionate amount of work, but the architects’ fee was about half of the engineers’ fee.  It was a reflection of an informed consumer (land developer) and the market place: more people wanted to study architecture (creative design) than engineering (number crunching).  Good luck!

From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of George Truitt
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 5:04 PM
To: 'hroberts at carltonfields.com'; 'clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org'
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] design services

My experience is that the design fee runs between 3% and 7% of the constrction cost. CA is hourly - $200/hr or less - most of which will be done by a junior level architect or exam eligible. 

From: Roberts, Hardy L. [mailto:hroberts at carltonfields.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 04:11 PM
To: CLC Discussion (clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org) <clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org> 
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] design services 

We seem to be having some listserv issues so I am forwarding the following on behalf of Gary Brown.

From: Gary L. Brown 
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 4:12 PM
To: 'clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org'
Subject: Pardon the interruption

Hello all.  I need your collective opinions on something.  A firm client is in the process of hiring an architect.  The client has already selected the architect, and is in the process of negotiating the contract, and wants feedback on the proposed fee.  

The project consists of a large (over 30 acres) site and includes 2 phases.  One will include a new office building over 300,000 s.f. and approximately 5,000 s.f. of a retail outlet. The other will include site planning only for approximately 150,000 s.f.  The architect will provide architectural, interior design, consulting and site planning for the project.  Design and documentation services are not included in the 2nd phase but the 1st phase will include everything from conceptual design through construction documents and then construction administration.  The whole project from start to finish, design through construction, will take over 2 years.

I’m looking for a rough estimate for what the total fee should be or how it should be calculated. Is there a per square foot average that is “industry� standard for design services?  What is the going hourly rate for on-site construction administration services? 

Email your comments to gbrown at wsh-law.com.

Any assistance you can provide would be greatly appreciated!

Gary

Gary L. Brown
Partner, Board Certified in Construction Law

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